Here is a thought. Is it possible that HTC is trying to engineer a solution that gives them the ultimate out? Is it possible that they will be engineering an unlock that sprint then has full control over? I.E. Sprint would then be able to go in and relock at will? This way HTC gets to say they are releasing their products unlocked but the carriers are controlling it?
I would imagine they would have just as many pissed off customers, but perhaps they are willing to take that risk? It is just a theory... so I don't even know if that is possible.
But I just can't think of why this could possibly take them this long. It would take half of a work day to prep the unlock and put it up on their website for download.
Anyone else have thoughts on that theory? Or perhaps you have other conspiracy theories to offer?
Possibly because it's not their number 1 priority? I'm sure they'll keep their promise, I just doubt it's at the very top of their list of things to do.
Jye75 said:
Possibly because it's not their number 1 priority? I'm sure they'll keep their promise, I just doubt it's at the very top of their list of things to do.
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Click to collapse
Exactly. In less than a week 2 updates have been pushed OTA to fix various bugs. Their priorities are obviously making sure the phone is working properly before allowing users to unlock them and rightfully so. This has all been so dramatic and if you look at their FB page its quite ridiculous how people are responding. HTC will get this done but there are more important issues to address first.
Perhaps they are waiting to see if the angry masses are bluffing.
Mine was returned. Simple reason is this... Better devices are a few months away that wont have locked bootloaders.
So bye bye EVO3d, me and my money will go elsewhere (nexus prime)
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
We all know that when unlocking and rooting there is a risk that you may get bricked, I'm pretty sure their biggest objective is to make sure anything they give us doesn't result in a bunch of paperweights that need to be replaced for free... That's not good business for them
Bussin Caps from my 3D shooter
Another thing, they are probably looking to find a universal way to unlock all of the phones that have just released too... Just a thought..prolly not the case though
Bussin Caps from my 3D shooter
I'd rather them fix the bugs first (like the new text message notification bug) and then unlock the device for us.
captblaze said:
Perhaps they are waiting to see if the angry masses are bluffing.
Mine was returned. Simple reason is this... Better devices are a few months away that wont have locked bootloaders.
So bye bye EVO3d, me and my money will go elsewhere (nexus prime)
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting that you even purchased the device in the first place... It was widely known that the bootloader was locked when the phone was released.
mlin said:
Exactly. In less than a week 2 updates have been pushed OTA to fix various bugs. Their priorities are obviously making sure the phone is working properly before allowing users to unlock them and rightfully so. This has all been so dramatic and if you look at their FB page its quite ridiculous how people are responding. HTC will get this done but there are more important issues to address first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes no sense at all. They could easily kill two birds with one stone and unlock during one of the OTAs to fix a bug. We don't need bugs fixed before the unlock. The reality is that once it is unlocked, our devs will take care of bugs in much shorter order than they (HTC) will. And in reality, once rooted, I will probably eliminate half of the bloatware that contains the bugs. So there will be nothing for me (and many others) to fix at that point.
The reality is that this is a simple task. They merely need to hand over the key. They fact that they are stalling leads me to believe they have sinister plans.
I think they are waiting to release enough bug fixes to get a pulse on their new hardware. They don't want rooting to complicate the picture: they'll never know whether the problems are caused by rooting or legit bugs. So I think they'll do one of two things:
(1) Unlock the phone in the next OTA in the next few days. They may have the unlock ready but they are tidying up some final bug fixes in the SAME OTA.
(2) They want to release one more OTA before they unlock... so it may not be in the next one but will likely be in the following.
That's my guess.
Mike
edufur said:
This makes no sense at all. They could easily kill two birds with one stone and unlock during one of the OTAs to fix a bug. We don't need bugs fixed before the unlock. The reality is that once it is unlocked, our devs will take care of bugs in much shorter order than they (HTC) will. And in reality, once rooted, I will probably eliminate half of the bloatware that contains the bugs. So there will be nothing for me (and many others) to fix at that point.
The reality is that this is a simple task. They merely need to hand over the key. They fact that they are stalling leads me to believe they have sinister plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes our devs could squash bugs quicker, but our devs also arent liable.. if HTC releases an update that unlocks all of our phones, and the next day they all brick, due to a rush, then we all get free phones.. our devs rush a release of something and it bricks, oops, your bad for flashing it.. so it makes sense that they would want this tested, as well as they should make sure the phone is working properly before they unlock it.. it will be unlocked, just give it time.. if they unlock it today, and something screws up, we will all jump on the "HTC sucks for screwing up my device train"..
I think people are just being way too paranoid. I mean, it's not even been a week since the phone's been released!
Sometimes, it's best to use separate stones to kill two birds. XDA developer bug fixes may not be in alignment with future HTC updates. Granted, you'd be rooted, but if it means having to completely redo bug fixes that should have been fixed already, when updating any new roms from HTC, you're doing twice the work.
edufur said:
This makes no sense at all. They could easily kill two birds with one stone and unlock during one of the OTAs to fix a bug. We don't need bugs fixed before the unlock. The reality is that once it is unlocked, our devs will take care of bugs in much shorter order than they (HTC) will. And in reality, once rooted, I will probably eliminate half of the bloatware that contains the bugs. So there will be nothing for me (and many others) to fix at that point.
The reality is that this is a simple task. They merely need to hand over the key. They fact that they are stalling leads me to believe they have sinister plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? No sense, huh? This unlock is more than the snap of a finger, it takes time. That said, push bug fix updates AQAP and don't delay them by trying to bundle in the bootloader unlock. More people want a phone that works than the number that care about the bootloader. Of course they don't want to release their private key, they want to just release and OTA unlock that does not reveal their key at all. If this still doesn't make sense to you then I won't even bother responding to you next time because we obviously think in very different ways and there is no more I can say to try to explain this.
mlin said:
Really? No sense, huh? This unlock is more than the snap of a finger, it takes time. That said, push bug fix updates AQAP and don't delay them by trying to bundle in the bootloader unlock. More people want a phone that works than the number that care about the bootloader. Of course they don't want to release their private key, they want to just release and OTA unlock that does not reveal their key at all. If this still doesn't make sense to you then I won't even bother responding to you next time because we obviously think in very different ways and there is no more I can say to try to explain this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, if you think about it, what is the point of guarding the key? If it is going to be unlocked, it is unlocked. The key to lock it isn't important anymore. If they want to lock future devices (which they said they don't), they could just create a new key.
In fact, the least risky thing for them to do would be to publish the key and tell people they get no warranty if they unlock it themselves... and that it would only be warrantied if they had a sprint rep do it.
There are so many ways they could do it fast and do it right. There is no excuse for the delay.
edufur said:
Actually, if you think about it, what is the point of guarding the key? If it is going to be unlocked, it is unlocked. The key to lock it isn't important anymore. If they want to lock future devices (which they said they don't), they could just create a new key.
In fact, the least risky thing for them to do would be to publish the key and tell people they get no warranty if they unlock it themselves... and that it would only be warrantied if they had a sprint rep do it.
There are so many ways they could do it fast and do it right. There is no excuse for the delay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% Agreed.
Releasing 'just the key' would also keep the barrier to entry relatively high. There are now thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) of people who have learned about 'root and bootloader thing' who are going to want in, even though they will not understand it...too easy of a solution and there will be bricks left and right even though it is not just easy to avoid a brick it is damn hard to achieve one...don't flash the wrong phone's radio, gotcha....(why not crypto-sign those, but I digress)
Not to mention that every single day that ticks past that we do not have root we are losing developers. The evo4g had this utterly amazing community behind it because the phone had buzz, it was delivered on time, it has awesome hardware and IT WAS ROOTED A WEEK OR TWO BEFORE RELEASE....I rooted mine in the radio shack parking lot on release day at 5:30am....we had mods later that day, roms later that week....this smart-phone business is fast-paced...sure, a lot of people are saying 'Just be patient', but, our community (that is currently just a rampaging mob) hasn't even formed yet and the time is ticking, more compelling devices are weeks away--WITHOUT LOCKS....if we get unlocked in 2 months, well, it won't be anything like the evo4g scene.
I will return my phone on the 23rd of July....Why did I buy it knowing full well it would be locked? They said it would be unlocked, and if done in a reasonable amount of time (which I believe 29 days to be) it is a device I would want and that would be a community I would want to be a part of...but that window is closing, constantly. I love the phone, but, I'm following the developers...screw the companies. They are supposed to work towards OUR satisfaction.
I'd bet its delayed because they are building in some kind of mind control function.
yep, that's my guess HTC is trying to turn us into zombies.
that or maybe it just takes time for the EVO 3D time to code it and all the bug fixes as well.
but I'm pretty sure its the zombie thing.
Alanmw86 said:
I'd bet its delayed because they are building in some kind of mind control function.
yep, that's my guess HTC is trying to turn us into zombies.
that or maybe it just takes time for the EVO 3D time to code it and all the bug fixes as well.
but I'm pretty sure its the zombie thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 zombies makes total sense
Now available in 3D
Alanmw86 said:
that or maybe it just takes time for the EVO 3D time to code it and all the bug fixes as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only time it take to release the key is the time it takes for them to post it. 1 hour max. Well worth it to stop the bad PR spam they are getting on their FB wall.
Ok i am not trying to be ignorant but is it really that important to have root so fast? I always wanted to root my phone but never did because I was under the assumption that most roms did not fully work completely. Like some couldn't record video or the 4g wasn't working or some other key features didn't work. Like I said I am just assuming and could totally be wrong.
Related
The Evo already got it, and im sure the incredible is almost there. Whats wrong with the Eris? And what Hboot are those two devices running?
Nikolai2.1 said:
The Evo already got it, and im sure the incredible is almost there. Whats wrong with the Eris? And what Hboot are those two devices running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uuuummm what r u talkin about ? im confused , the eris is already rooted ,atleast if u have 1.5 u can root it or the 2.1 ota i belie ve u can too
tazzpatriot said:
uuuummm what r u talkin about ? im confused , the eris is already rooted ,atleast if u have 1.5 u can root it or the 2.1 ota i belie ve u can too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it would be obvious that im talking about the leaked versions
it's just attention has been diverted that's all. if all the devs were working on rooting those leaks I have no doubt in my mind it would have already been, or very close to being rooted, but as it stands, most devs already have root on their phones so they arent as focused to rooting anymore, just providing more things already rooted phones. I'm sure there are some more devso ut there trying everyday to root it, but without as many, or as much work into it, it's going to be quite a while to get there.
I was looking into it myself, until my trackball stopped working and I got a replacement phone, so I guess I could be to blame as well for this.
Lemcott said:
it's just attention has been diverted that's all. if all the devs were working on rooting those leaks I have no doubt in my mind it would have already been, or very close to being rooted, but as it stands, most devs already have root on their phones so they arent as focused to rooting anymore, just providing more things already rooted phones. I'm sure there are some more devso ut there trying everyday to root it, but without as many, or as much work into it, it's going to be quite a while to get there.
I was looking into it myself, until my trackball stopped working and I got a replacement phone, so I guess I could be to blame as well for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
devs are def. working on the issue. problem is, it's a no paying job.
I dont get the whole point in calling Android open source software if they have to lock our phones so we cant do anything. if we screw it up thats our fault so i dont see the problem
cornbreadfarts said:
devs are def. working on the issue. problem is, it's a no paying job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I recognized that some are still working on it, I just said that attention has been diverted greatly. do you think releasing an ad blocker, various roms, overclocking, froyo, live wallpapers, aosp/jit support they were busy trying to root at the same time? of course not, you can only do so much at once, and attention to rooting has shifted greatly. have they forgot about it completely? hell no! they just put it on the backburners.
Nikolai2.1 said:
I dont get the whole point in calling Android open source software if they have to lock our phones so we cant do anything. if we screw it up thats our fault so i dont see the problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google and android being open source has nothing to do with it. it's the carriers who prefer to lock down the phones.
A to keep the general public out of things that could hurt. could you imagine any old lady picking up an android phone and overclocking and the SU app, and all the other tools were there? it'd either destroy her phone when she messes with it, or left alone entirely because she doesnt know what they do. eitherway? they become pointless to have on the phone.
B to keep users out of things that cost more money. did you know you have to actually pay verizon an extra addition on your bill to unlock tethering on the phones they allow tethering on? by having root, we can tether without them knowing on phones that don't usually have tethering and we can do it without paying for it. it's not exactly something they want going on, so they lock the phones down.
C safety. Having root access on our phone gives apps a lot more things to control, and with such, if anything malicious gets on our phone, it can do more damage on a root user then a locked down phone.
so take the nexus one for instance, if you bought that through google, not a wireless provider, it still has root on it for the first and last reasons I mentioned. to keep the general public out of things they don't need to be getting into/understand how to control. and with the safety lockdown, the average person who goes "oh what's this?" *click* on a malicious app doesnt get that chance.
it's not about keeping us out, it's about making the service providers happy, and keeping the general public safe.
google has put into android a very simple way to get root access for us all, it's the phone hardware (and their custom software additions) and the service providers that make it harder and harder to get into the system.
makes sense, but safe from what? its a phone... it wont kill you
buttttt how would you go about getting a pre rooted nexus one even if you dont have t mobile and just want the phone?
Nikolai2.1 said:
makes sense, but safe from what? its a phone... it wont kill you
buttttt how would you go about getting a pre rooted nexus one even if you dont have t mobile and just want the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No the phone wont hurt you, just your pocket when the average person, who knows zip about what they are doing with a rooted phone totally bricks the phone and has to buy a new one, at full retail price. Or perhaps they load up a app that causes major issues with the phone, causing it to lock up/fail. again hurting the pocket book by having to buy a new phone at retail price.
I'm not trying to be a **** here but I'm fairly certain that when any of us load anything onto the phone we're aware of the risks it could bring, I would hope you went into this with the same mentality.
that is what we are saying, anying who can make an account on XDA, actually, anyone who has even HEARD of xda is probably smart enough to not do any brick-inducing stupid moves.
I'm talking about the average person who doesnt know the difference between RAM and ROM here, it's locked down to protect them from their own dumb moves.
frankspin said:
I'm not trying to be a **** here but I'm fairly certain that when any of us load anything onto the phone we're aware of the risks it could bring, I would hope you went into this with the same mentality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats exactly what im trying to say. if we screw up our phones that our own fault so i dont see why we should worry about others who brick their phones and end up buying new ones. thats their fault and they can deal with it
(now because i said that if im ever able to root ill probably brick my phone trying) karma sucks...
but still.
We bugged the heck out of HTC to get them to give us a bootloader unlock. Now, let's bug them to give us kernel source!
Steps:
1) Go to HTC's Facebook page. If this is your first time, click on Like to like HTC's Facebook page - this is needed so that you can post on HTC's wall.
2) Post something on their wall asking for kernel source for the EVO 3D, EVO 4G, EVO Shift, and Sensation. If you don't know what to type or just want it made easy, copy/paste the following:
Please release the kernel source for the EVO 3D, EVO 4G, EVO Shift, and Sensation. I love HTC devices, but I would like them even more if we could get kernel source in a timely manner.
3) Go to Twitter and Tweet something @HTC. For another copy/paste option, use this:
@HTC Please release kernel source for EVO 3D, EVO 4G, Shift, and Sensation. #gplviolation
5) Post in this thread to keep it bumped near the top - make this as visible as possible!
5) Repeat as often as possible, but please do this at least once per day! Thanks!
FAQ:
Why are we doing this? Several reasons - but most of all, all Linux-based kernels are governed by the GPL - this basically means that anyone that takes a Linux kernel and modifies it and releases that software publicly must include a copy of the source code released at the same time. HTC is, by law, required to release their kernel source. Unfortunately, HTC usually waits 2-4 months to release.
What is kernel source? It's the actual source code needed to compile a kernel for our phones.
What is a kernel? Think of it as the core of the operating system (or the core of Android, if you will). It's what makes everything work and makes it all work together.
Why do we need kernel source? Kernel source is needed to make a solid kernel for AOSP ROMs like CyanogenMod and MIUI. It's also very useful for making all of the other custom kernels such as netarchy's kernels that were famous on the EVO 4G and for adding in extras like overclocking, undervolting, etc. Kernel source may also help us develop a method for obtaining our own S-OFF before HTC releases their unlocked bootloader.
What is the GPL? Click the link!
Please note that HTC is starting to play a little bit dirty by deleting some people's posts on Facebook. For the time being, please try to remain respectful when posting to give them less of a reason to delete. Thanks.
edited: a new canned response it looks like...
Thought this was funny from awhile back: http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/03/21/htc-0-linux-core-dev-1-htcs-delays-of-mandatory-android-kernel-releases-come-back-to-bite-it-in-the-rear/
Has anyone suggested HTC register here? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs/legal/compliance
it might be September before we get the bootloader unlocked... and who knows what kinda tricks they may pull. Without that, I'm not concerned about kernel source.
Bump.... Will do
Sent from my 6 shooter in 3D
Rippley05 said:
it might be September before we get the bootloader unlocked... and who knows what kinda tricks they may pull. Without that, I'm not concerned about kernel source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose you're welcome to wait for HTC to release their unlock, but that doesn't mean that we still can't unlock it ourselves - which would be easier if we had kernel source. Further, there's nothing stopping kernel developers from working on kernels before we have achieved S-OFF on our devices so that the kernels are ready when the devices are.
They aren't really breaking any laws, the GPL has plenty of wiggle room and loop holes in it.
Tons of companies never release the source code, even though they are supposed to.
I don't see the point in bugging them about it. They said they are going to do it, they just need more time. Don't be a dbag and hassle them about it. I used to work at customer care and all it did was piss off the staff when someone did this and we had to answer calls all day about some stupid stuff that wasn't released on its "release date", though one had never been made official. We came up with a script and would just read it back word for word anytime they asked. If they still asked questions after that, we just re-read the script until all their questions were answered.
I think its rude, annoying, and being a bad consumer. They have clearly said they are going to do it. Patience is a virtue. I'm sure they have a reason, most companies that aren't Apple listen to their customers, and when they say, hey we hear you, and we will do it, they usually mean it. Especially when its posted so publicly on their Twitter and Facebook.
So just chill, wait a little, and it'll be here. Bugging them probably won't speed up the people doing the work (because those doing the work, and those responding to your questions are 2 different people)
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
What's the point of having a kernel source with no s-off? Is rather have then unlock the bootloader first, by then they should be ready to release the source.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk
fr0st420 said:
What's the point of having a kernel source with no s-off? Is rather have then unlock the bootloader first, by then they should be ready to release the source.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15759458&postcount=5
fr0st420 said:
What's the point of having a kernel source with no s-off? Is rather have then unlock the bootloader first, by then they should be ready to release the source.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See two posts above yours.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
You all know there is still a lot you can do without s-off... it'll help the cause either way.
They aren't really breaking any laws, the GPL has plenty of wiggle room and loop holes in it.
Tons of companies never release the source code, even though they are supposed to.
I don't see the point in bugging them about it. They said they are going to do it, they just need more time. Don't be a dbag and hassle them about it. I used to work at customer care and all it did was piss off the staff when someone did this and we had to answer calls all day about some stupid stuff that wasn't released on its "release date", though one had never been made official. We came up with a script and would just read it back word for word anytime they asked. If they still asked questions after that, we just re-read the script until all their questions were answered.
I think its rude, annoying, and being a bad consumer. They have clearly said they are going to do it. Patience is a virtue. I'm sure they have a reason, most companies that aren't Apple listen to their customers, and when they say, hey we hear you, and we will do it, they usually mean it. Especially when its posted so publicly on their Twitter and Facebook.
So just chill, wait a little, and it'll be here. Bugging them probably won't speed up the people doing the work (because those doing the work, and those responding to your questions are 2 different people)
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, because that's exactly what HTC wants right now with Apple's lawsuit getting so much attention; the fact that they take advantage of the GNU and withhold the kernel source a good portion of a devices life cycle in order give themselves an unfair advantage. They may want to think about restaffing their legal team if that's the plan.
Keep the pressure on. If the S-OFF videos on YouTube for the Sensation are correct, then S-OFF will probably be released soon for our EVOs as well. We'll really want that kernel source ASAP!
Been pestering them for the source, they are being stubborn:
https://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150371265543084?notif_t=feed_comment
I've also tried support e-mails and posting on Twitter every day, so far nothing.
Whenever I see these threads I always wonder, what will you guys ask for next? lol
We can ask for whatever we want. With enough pressure, maybe we'll get it. We'll get kernel source eventually no matter what, but it'd be nice to get it sooner rather than later.
Arbron said:
I think its rude, annoying, and being a bad consumer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious? I mean are you serious? I live in a country that is run by faceless corporations and big business whose only reason for existence is to make sure they get every penny we make somehow. Wether it be 2gig caps or insurance hikes for no reason or a car that needs traded in because its falling apart at pay off. Or big business and churches donating politically to see that their best interests are met. And your gonna say be a good consumer. Go back to your phone and cubicle my friend. HTC along with every other company is making money hand over fist right now, based off of an open source product. They have the bootloader and kernel information in hand, there isnt anyone working on it, it exists already. Bad consumer
Up to the top. Please keep bugging HTC and keep bumping the thread so that it stays where people will see it!
Don't give up people... we really need kernel source to get the most out of our EVO 3Ds!!!
I agree, help out here guys. We won't get any decent vanilla roms or any good kernels without this, and s-off won't really matter.
I dont think a campaign, even in numbers, will achieve a faster delivery of bootloader or kernel source. HTC has a lot going on right now. Really.
With Apple's victory in the courtroom, I would imagine that the delay in the bootloader is re-writing some original source and incorporating the unlock as well... for numerous devices. They are likely working on source and unlock for other phones while conducting massive source re-write in order to keep HTC handsets coming to America.
Personally, I would rather see the delay of unlock longer than the death of HTC availability in the US...
Simply a statement. I would not undermine or put down anyone's attempts to acquire these things. I was just trying to facilitate a little understanding on HTC's behalf. And no, I do not work for them. ;-)
Hello,
I know many of us are quite disappointed with Apple's actions of late. It really seems since they went to Intel Chips on their Computers, they have sold their souls.
I think it would be more constructive to aim all of this energy at our displeasure with Apple as opposed to hammering HTC any further. The Bootloader will be Unlocked and with the capabilities of the Developers here, the full potential of these Phones will soon be unleashed.
Cheers,
JJ
Yeah, I'm not entering my name anywhere. Thanks anyway, HTC. Besides, AlphaRev and Unrevoked already did your job for you.
Since our last update, many of you have asked how the bootloader unlocking process will actually work, and in particular why HTC's most recently released devices still have a locked bootloader. Rest assured we're making progress toward our goal to roll out the first software updates in August to support unlocking for the global HTC Sensation, followed soon by the HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile and the HTC EVO 3D on Sprint. Because unlocking the bootloader provides extensive control over the device and modifications may cause operation, security and experience issues, new devices will continue to ship locked but will support user-initiated unlocking using a new Web-based tool.
So how will this work? The Web tool, which will launch this month, requires that you register an account with a valid e-mail address and accept legal disclaimers that unlocking may void all or parts of your warranty. Then plug in your phone to a computer with the Android SDK loaded to retrieve a device identifier token, which you can then enter into the Web tool to receive a unique unlock key via e-mail. Finally, apply the key to your device and unlocking will be initiated on your phone.
We're excited to bring bootloader unlocking to developers and enthusiasts, and we feel this new Web tool will meet your needs and continue to provide customers with the best experience. Thanks to the community for supporting these efforts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10150305151453084&id=101063233083
I figured they would want a way to know exactly which phones were unlocked. i'll stick with alpha revs method.
From my mikmikoptimized shooter!
blackroseMD1 said:
Yeah, I'm not entering my name anywhere. Thanks anyway, HTC. Besides, AlphaRev and Unrevoked already did your job for you.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10150305151453084&id=101063233083
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Click to collapse
wow. some actual clarity on what they plan to do.
nice to see an update !
but for the evo3d is a bit late
Lmao,actually according to their explanation,their method sounds just like AlpharevX.It would be hilarious if alpharevX sold their method to HTC.
That blows. They couldn't just ship the damn thing unlocked.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
ktulu909 said:
Lmao,actually according to their explanation,their method sounds just like AlpharevX.It would be hilarious if alpharevX sold their method to HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if he did I hope he didn't sell them the serial numbers of the ones already unlocked jk
I guess it all makes sense (har har).
If it makes the carriers happy, who cares if this is how they do it? I'm sure whenever they release a bootloader unlocker someone on XDA will take it and make it so you can do it without the email/key. We're gonna come out ahead either way.
Well i guess now they will know when we unlock our bootloader and warranty I don't care since I don't use the warranty anyways
If you don't have an Evo3d well you don't have an Evo3d
I'd be curious to know from Google, Sprint and Samsung how many problems they have from the NexusS4G being very easily unlockable...I doubt it's very many...and HTC should suck on that.
I don't know if that's as much of a fair comparison - with the Nexus being near stock I wouldn't expect them to be flashed/bricked nearly as much as with the Evo4G.
The OG Evo gained so much from flashing - features, kernels, whole new versions of sense. And it had so many updates over the life of the phone, making for different rooting methods and having people flash their phones many many times, making it one of if not the most developed phone we have seen.
I'm quite certain the brick count on those were some of the highest anyone's ever seen as well. That's after all the returns from dead pixels, bad charging ports, and what have you. You can understand a carrier/manufacturer's wishing to prevent all that.
By the same token, it feels like HTC benefits greatly from the development community, perhaps using a lot of what they see here in their own updates (maybe even waiting for people to fix their bugs). They definitely see value in unlocking phones, which I guess we should be happy about.
As long as HTC keeps their unlocked policy I will remain a loyal customer.
nhutpham said:
I don't know if that's as much of a fair comparison - with the Nexus being near stock I wouldn't expect them to be flashed/bricked nearly as much as with the Evo4G.
The OG Evo gained so much from flashing - features, kernels, whole new versions of sense. And it had so many updates over the life of the phone, making for different rooting methods and having people flash their phones many many times, making it one of if not the most developed phone we have seen.
I'm quite certain the brick count on those were some of the highest anyone's ever seen as well. That's after all the returns from dead pixels, bad charging ports, and what have you. You can understand a carrier/manufacturer's wishing to prevent all that.
By the same token, it feels like HTC benefits greatly from the development community, perhaps using a lot of what they see here in their own updates (maybe even waiting for people to fix their bugs). They definitely see value in unlocking phones, which I guess we should be happy about.
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Were there that many bricked E4G's? I don't recall hearing about that many of them in my tenure on the forum...admittedly I barely spent any time in General that year as Development was bustling from before day 1.
...but, per capita I doubt the brick-count was that far off the average for any other popular phone worth rooting. God knows I did horrible things to mine and never even had to fix it via adb/fastboot.... it was a very popular phone even among the average joe.
I know that HTC benefits greatly from the dev community. Where do you think they got the FPS-unlock from? Among other things. That's how open source works and is designed to work. That's also why myself and others were so shocked with the whole 'locking' fiasco.
...now, aside from our own speculation about how high the brick rate may or may not have been why not speculate about something more productive: How LOW the brick rate could be if they utilized eMMC's secure-write technology to make a 'mega-recovery' partition that would be locked and even WE wouldn't want to unlock it....that could be used in a worst case scenario to fully restore a phone to stock...to enable the unlocking that WE want and reduce the (understandable) liability of allowing full control that they want. We get unlock, they get insulation from liability of allowing such a feature (that most people STILL wouldn't know about or care about)....why don't they do that? eMMC makes that trivial to implement (as we found out the hard way)...neglecting the fact that they could have utilized any number of simpler technologies to accomplish the same thing even before eMMC...why not?
That's a topic for further speculation (get your tinfoil hats ready), but, why don't they do that? Play both sides of the field. No voided warranties, no brick returns, no pissed off modders....win win win, right? The carrier doesn't want that? Cool, let us know, we'll flock to the carrier that allows it...something tells me Sprint would be that underdog...
ktulu909 said:
Lmao,actually according to their explanation,their method sounds just like AlpharevX.It would be hilarious if alpharevX sold their method to HTC.
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Not at all like what AlphaRevX did. The only reason they had the serial number check was because it was in Beta so they could shut down their serial generator and stop people using their unlock if they found a problem with it.
This HTC method makes sense, and I think it's fair. Their tool only needs to hook up to your phone to get the device identifier token, the unlock actually happens on the phone itself. This way HTC gets a list of unlocked phones so when people go for support you can't lie to them that your phone was unlocked, but people can have day one unlocks on any phone from HTC going forward.
So now HTC wants to know who exactly is unlocking there phones??
Nice try you sneaky basterds
What's wrong with them knowing if you're unlocked? They have to do that... Otherwise insurance companies would get upset. This is legit and it if people screw their phones up due to user error while unlocked then they shouldn't be able to file a claim.
This also let's them see just how many people want to be unlocked so they don't try and take it away from us again
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
Rippley05 said:
What's wrong with them knowing if you're unlocked? They have to do that... Otherwise insurance companies would get upset. This is legit and it if people screw their phones up due to user error while unlocked then they shouldn't be able to file a claim.
This also let's them see just how many people want to be unlocked so they don't try and take it away from us again
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
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yeah....I dunno. They could (relatively) easily make the phones nearly brick-proof (see my above post) yet they do not. Why? I'm almost irritated by all of the altruistic sentiment for 'doing the right thing'....not because of the altruism, I actually find that refreshing and endearing. It's more because they could take steps to nearly eliminate the potential for bricking (and in doing so insulate the insurance company from liability...making that a moot point), but that people are defending a position that needn't exist.
nhutpham said:
i guess it all makes sense (har har).
If it makes the carriers happy, who cares if this is how they do it? I'm sure whenever they release a bootloader unlocker someone on xda will take it and make it so you can do it without the email/key. We're gonna come out ahead either way.
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+1000000000
Haha, sounds exactly how alpharev did it...hmm, maybe they tore it out of alpharevs hands, i dont know, sounds fishy.
daneurysm said:
yeah....I dunno. They could (relatively) easily make the phones nearly brick-proof (see my above post) yet they do not. Why? I'm almost irritated by all of the altruistic sentiment for 'doing the right thing'....not because of the altruism, I actually find that refreshing and endearing. It's more because they could take steps to nearly eliminate the potential for bricking (and in doing so insulate the insurance company from liability...making that a moot point), but that people are defending a position that needn't exist.
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You don't know why they're doing it. Maybe they wanna track the people that abuse the crap out of wireless tether... Maybe it's for other reasons. Who cares, they are unlocking it for us and that's all that matters. I have nothing to hide when I root so I care less. If you're upset about it then there are other options.
People are getting exactly what they wanted and they still find a reason to cry... Get over it already
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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Click to collapse
This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
Please delete. The average xda user replying to this topic with their own opinion was not the goal of this thread. Since it seems replies are based off w/e their brains decided to pick out of my OP instead of processing the entire post. Besides I have achieved my goal, thanks.
I'm totally guessing right now, but I think Shelnutt2 is working on something behind the scenes. He's an Optimus G Sprint user, at least, and there are whispers and murmurs about a root method outside of the circle (jcase, autoprime, et al). GUESSING!
I also believe there IS a Sprint root in existence, but it's not public. I personally have resigned myself to just waiting. Hopefully by the end of the month, maybe a bit longer, I'd be surprised if nobody had anything within 30 days. That seems like a long time, but what can you do?
/speculation
Root will come. There are devs working to find a way to get it done. As with any new device, just takes time to find the loop hole. I know (Somehwere) on here, one is working on getting device and hoping (key word here) to release something by Mid august. In all honesty, Only a few reasons I personally want to root right now (Greenify/Titanium backup) other than that.. Stock is working quite well. Hang in there folks.. It'll happen in time.
Thanks for replying without reading my post.
Let's see...looks to me like they read your post as I did.
Root will come when it comes. And they'll charge if they want to.
Bounties don't work very well without having the phone.
There's at least 2 AWESOME Devs that have our phone and are working on getting us Root and Unlock.
Patience is a virtue.
Edit: Sorry..I don't want the above to be taken wrong. So here's some threads about bounties, root, unlock
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2776198
http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g3/general/discussion-root-g3s-t2816060
http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g3/general/bounty-lg-g3-d855bootloader-unlocking-t2807900
If you read through those threads, you'll see there's quite the discussion/debate over it all.
Also, We have a Dev team with and without our phone and they are all working on root/unlock. Here's the ones I know of in no particular order.
thecubed
autoprime
jcase - Sprint
Shelnutt2 - Sprint
fiddy619 - Sprint I think
They've all done root/unlocks in the past along with some other important items, like LG's EFS. You lose your EFS, be prepared for tons of work if you're lucky. And usually a Brick by the real definition of paperweight.
Sent from my LGLS990 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
If root is a must, you never want to buy the phone right at release. You will hardly ever have it rooted right out of the box. Just be happy that this isn't iOS and you have to wait months to see something.
Better Battery Plus
Ikyo said:
If root is a must, you never want to buy the phone right at release. You will hardly ever have it rooted right out of the box. Just be happy that this isn't iOS and you have to wait months to see something.
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The reason for root on this (and any device) really is that Google in its infinite wisdom locked apps out of the battery info service - https://plus.google.com/+SvenKnispel/posts/ReLvz6KJwG5. So now just to see what's draining the battery, you have to root the phone. The first two days of the G3, my battery was draining like crazy and I couldn't figure out why. It seems to have stabilized now. But even so every now or then it acts up. For me, this is the real big reason for getting the G3 rooted. Then of course, Xposed to get rid of the volume configuration in the notification drop down, TiB for freezing apps and Nandroid backups. I could live without the rest. It's just the checking of battery stats that's bugging me.
But between waiting on this phone and charging it more frequently, I'll do the latter No way I was waiting any longer than I absolutely had to for this beauty.