Related
I'm not to much of a tech head and i know the quad cores help things run faster and smoother... but without ICS, it seems like the quad cores are not being used. What proof is there that ICS will even make full use of the quad cores? Does this
tablet use the quad cores to there full potential with anything? or are the cores just a marketing tool? As far as i can tell, the ipad has faster internet surfing and better a better gpu.
im not here to bad talk the asus or anything, I just want some... reassuring.
blaziner18 said:
I'm not to much of a tech head and i know the quad cores help things run faster and smoother... but without ICS, it seems like the quad cores are not being used. What proof is there that ICS will even make full use of the quad cores? Does this
tablet use the quad cores to there full potential with anything? or are the cores just a marketing tool? As far as i can tell, the ipad has faster internet surfing and better a better gpu.
im not here to bad talk the asus or anything, I just want some... reassuring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right but when ICS roles out with NATIVE HARDWARE acceleration it will kick even the ipad 3's butt!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
From what I've heard, ICS fixes a lot of issues. The SunSpider tests (browser test) on the Galaxy Nexus running ICS was faster than the iPhone 4S.
But there is really no comparison between the Prime or any Android Tablet to the iPad. Assuming that you have the money, if you want an iOS tab, get the iPad. If you want an Android tab get the Prime.
This was discussed in a couple of earlier threads (here's one: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1377519). ICS doesn't really improve on Honeycomb when it comes to hardware acceleration or multi-core support. It will, however, likely be more optimized and a better overall experience.
I think most folks are hoping for a better browser experience, mostly. Otherwise, I think performance will be similar.
Here's a great video that shows how the five cores work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1qKdBX4-jc&feature=player_embedded
xGary said:
From what I've heard, ICS fixes a lot of issues. The SunSpider tests (browser test) on the Galaxy Nexus running ICS was faster than the iPhone 4S.
But there is really no comparison between the Prime or any Android Tablet to the iPad. Assuming that you have the money, if you want an iOS tab, get the iPad. If you want an Android tab get the Prime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People need to stop quoting sunspider benchmarks they are extremely unreliable and you never get the same results!
Also those benchmarks where preformed with the stock ics browser! And who uses stock! If they used another browser it would been way faster!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
What is a better browser?
Wordlywisewiz said:
Your right but when ICS roles out with NATIVE HARDWARE acceleration it will kick even the ipad 3's butt!
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I enjoy a little Apple bashing as much as the next guy, lets not lose touch with reality:
Dianne Hackborn - How about some Android graphics true facts?
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
It woNt even matter. The extra cores will help regardless of optimized for it or not. There's been a few videos showing how the extra cores kick in to iniate actions faster, or make apps or games run a lot better. Who cares if the GPU not the most powerful out of all tablets. It's the most powerful in Android at the moment. Plus ipad2 is only slightly better. nOW, the CPU in tegra3 blows away any other CPU in the mobile tech market today, as far as tablets like iOS or Amdroid goes. The extra power in CPU can make up for any shortcomings on the already powerful gpu. Several reviewers said the best graphics ever seen on a mobile device was shown powered by tegra3 Prime, not ipad2. Browsing experience is subjective to the user. 3rd party apps are always better than native ones. Opera mobile will more than likely be best for prime, as it's the best for Android at the moment. Dolphin HD is great also.
Stop feeding into the so called negative hype so much. iPad browser not so fast n I have one. Safari sux but I have ICab and atomic browser which are much better than IOS stock safari browser.
Not to sound funny but this thread is another rehash of jeiwongs or others. You don't need no reassuring, unless you a child. I thought I saw one of your other posts saying you was an adult. Stop trying to compare everything to iPad. iPad so simple anyways so it should run fast as he'll. There is a lot more going on in Android OS like widgets n so on. For android to have all the extras and have the The Prime perform just as fast is an amazing feat. Ipad2 Only won a couple categories, Tegra3 blew all the other categories away.
As other more knowledgeable members have stated here before, don't be so fixated on spec numbers, like gpu. Nvidia and tegra3 has tricks up their sleeve to produce amazing results. Just like cars, just because you have more. Horsepower, doesn't automatically mean you will be faster or win. Other factors come into play. Weight, efficiency , etc...don't focus on gpu so much as it's the most powerful out for android anyways. Be amazed how more powerful the CPU is than any other tablet out now. The CPU will push anything extra needed the gpu can't handle on it's own. That's why Prime has all the extra capabilities like micro SD card support, USB host functions, game controllers, etc..
Apple, even though they make great tech devices, fool people. They could of easily implemented everything in ipad2 into ipad1. But no, they want to add a few extra features and make you want newer device. Especially with iPhones and all the different versions. Each upgrade could've easily been implemented into the last/previous one. At least with tegra3 is will have more longevity than any apple device. I have an iPad n love it but tired of having to hack ot just to do the simple tasks most others do out the box. Like people said before, iPad is for someone who loves simplicity and not too keen on technology. Android is a nerds dream and the customizations are very numerous. T the point of personalizing it. iPad, all you do is change wallpaper. Wow..lol. Even jail broken n adding themes, it still the same look really. Although I do have honey pad on iPad which changes it up to honeycomb UI. Completely makes iPad feel like a new device with widgets n everything. But ipad1 only has 256mb of RAM so I run out of ram quick when adding several widgets. Even ipad2 only has 512. Most Android devices now run 1GB of Ram. Newer ones will have even 2GB. The future lies with Android. The Prime will be the beginning of the new Android Revolution. 2012 will he tegra3 year, year of The Android. Once ipad3 announced, it will be cool n get lot of hype but now for the first time, us Android owners have devices to truly compete with Apple on all fronts. So the hype for Apple won't be as strong as before. People know now they have more choices of great products out there. Not just Apple.
Apple can optimize iOS in a way that Android cannot be optimized because Apple controls every aspect of their devices--hardware and software. Hell, I'd be shocked if an iPad 2 wasn't more optimized than any given Android device. And even then, it should be noted that Apple achieves their vaunted fluidity because iOS does far less than Android--lesser multitasking, no widgets, etc.
I'm more than willing to accept a little worse performance because I can do so much more with my Android devices, at least as far as the OS itself is concerned. Just the ability to stock up my Transformer's (and soon to be Prime's) home screens with functional elements like widgets means that I get far more overall functionality out of my Android tablet than I'd get from an iPad 2.
The apps situation is different, of course, but that will change. Already, I can't think of a single task I'd like to do with my tablet that I can't because of a missing app. So, the fact that the iPad 2 might be a little smoother in some things is pretty much irrelevant to me.
wynand32 said:
Apple can optimize iOS in a way that Android cannot be optimized because Apple controls every aspect of their devices--hardware and software. Hell, I'd be shocked if an iPad 2 wasn't more optimized than any given Android device. And even then, it should be noted that Apple achieves their vaunted fluidity because iOS does far less than Android--lesser multitasking, no widgets, etc.
I'm more than willing to accept a little worse performance because I can do so much more with my Android devices, at least as far as the OS itself is concerned. Just the ability to stock up my Transformer's (and soon to be Prime's) home screens with functional elements like widgets means that I get far more overall functionality out of my Android tablet than I'd get from an iPad 2.
The apps situation is different, of course, but that will change. Already, I can't think of a single task I'd like to do with my tablet that I can't because of a missing app. So, the fact that the iPad 2 might be a little smoother in some things is pretty much irrelevant to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... all of those words.
Ectoplasmic said:
While I enjoy a little Apple bashing as much as the next guy, lets not lose touch with reality:
Dianne Hackborn - How about some Android graphics true facts?
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I edited/deleted what I originally wrote. I'm sure he saw what I wrote. Regardless of how I feel, everyone entitled to their own opinions. If everyone thought the same this world would be a boring place. Just because I don't agree with opinion doesn't mean i need to counter and rag on the person.
That link does show some very interesting facts n details on how Android operates. This has been posted before but still good info.
I believe Android is more a focus on strengths than on shortcomings. android is getting better n better with every release. I know iOS structure and environment very well but I see the future potential in Android. iOS will always be locked down.
Cool story bro...
I used to take sides on the android vs. iOS debate, till the day I took an Arrow in the Knee.
Ectoplasmic said:
Cool story bro...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I editEd my OG post.
blaziner18 said:
I'm not to much of a tech head and i know the quad cores help things run faster and smoother... but without ICS, it seems like the quad cores are not being used. What proof is there that ICS will even make full use of the quad cores? Does this
tablet use the quad cores to there full potential with anything? or are the cores just a marketing tool? As far as i can tell, the ipad has faster internet surfing and better a better gpu.
im not here to bad talk the asus or anything, I just want some... reassuring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theory says: A processor (a core) can only run one thing at a given time. OSs use priority systems and give each running process a short time to do something before passing to the next process in a cycle. Having more cores would mean that each app would go in a specific core, so if you have 4 apps running at the same time, the 4 cores would be used. If you have more than 4 apps, each app would be assigned to a different core so they are distributed instead of acumulating them into just one.
And this should happen even if they aren't prepared for multicore, the system will send each app to a different core so they can run at the same time and be smoother. If an app is ready for multicore, then it can use the different cores to get the same result 4x faster. And even in games, as the GPU only fills textures. Yes, the iPad2 will fill the textures faster, but everything else will be faster on the tegra3 because of the 4 cores loading the game itself and each level faster, calculating each movement faster, and so on.
As browsing goes... read the link given by Ectoplasmic and try what is said there (i beliave it was that article) on your iPad. While loading a complex webpage, if you try to do anything with the tablet, the loading will stop until you release it. There, if it was at least dual core, one core could handle the user interaction and the other the browsing. Being a multitask system, android also has the problem of browsing with possible background apps using the connection (that only has one channel) limiting your speed and performance. Having more cores would soften this effect (because of what i stated first) but never eliminate it. On the other hand, your Twitter, fb, g+ could be getting updates while you load a webpage (it would take 1.1 secs instead of 1.0) but it wouldn't happen on the iPad.
Another day another Ipad (iOS) vs Prime (android) discussion.
So eat this, trollz!
If you ever thought about getting or did get an iPad you're not worthy of the Transformer Prime man.
I'd say if you cant decide between the two: ipad2&prime, get the iPad. Why? Because if you dont have an ipad, you dont have an ipad.
If for some reason after reading this post you're under the impression that I suggested to you to get the iPad. Get the iPad. Or read it again.
And dont take me too seriously i'm a friendly guy. And i just had some yummie beers and some red stuff out of a strange bottle^^
[Looking forward to the moment when "Sent from my TransformerPrime" is written in this spot]
demandarin said:
Stop feeding into the so called negative hype so much. iPad browser not so fast n I have one. Safari sux but I have ICab and atomic browser which are much better than IOS stock safari browser.
Not to sound funny but this thread is another rehash of jeiwongs or others. You don't need no reassuring, unless you a child. I thought I saw one of your other posts saying you was an adult. Stop trying to compare everything to iPad. iPad so simple anyways so it should run fast as he'll. There is a lot more going on in Android OS like widgets n so on. For android to have all the extras and have the The Prime perform just as fast is an amazing feat. Ipad2 Only won a couple categories, Tegra3 blew all the other categories away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me the child? I see all of your posts, and if anyone says anything negative about your god of a device you turn into a sad little fanboy. I don't feed into negative hype, I know what i see and i know that the apples internet browsing is faster. I was simply wondering what the cores do.
Android fanboys don't own iPads. I have an iPad and Android devices. So I can say I have experience comparing the two browsing experiences. Like I said before, in a sense, it was already stated before what the cores can and cannot do. This nothing more than a rehash of old thread that got closed. Grow some $&@@- and learn to research first, as your question been answered in several other threads here. XDA is not here to hold your hand n tell you everything OK. Get a grip, use search function, don't take everything so seriously . If you want to be seen as posting meaningful/informational stuff, then take it easy on the fluff filled threads..lol mr. hype man
demandarin said:
.. If you want to be seen as posting meaningful/informational stuff..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never seen you post anything meaningful.
A lot of this is starting to feel connected to the tegra3.
So, my guess is the ones that rebooted needed more voltage and could not deal with switching cpu's on and off.
So now that we have all 4 on all the time, the ones that can't handle that are showing flaws.
To me it seems like this could be a manufacturing issue with the tegra3.
I'm sure some of the issues could be ICS+tegra3 as well.
Is there someplace that has info on the tegra3? Not many devices have it yet.
fenturi said:
A lot of this is starting to feel connected to the tegra3.
So, my guess is the ones that rebooted needed more voltage and could not deal with switching cpu's on and off.
So now that we have all 4 on all the time, the ones that can't handle that are showing flaws.
To me it seems like this could be a manufacturing issue with the tegra3.
I'm sure some of the issues could be ICS+tegra3 as well.
Is there someplace that has info on the tegra3? Not many devices have it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been saying for at least a month now this is all because of hardware and manufacturing differences with the processor. In other words everyone is screwed because this is not something where software can just magically make all of the Primes play nice which they already proved with the latest update it fixed some Primes with original lockup issue while borking ones that were perfectly fine..... not only that they are degrading our battery life severely trying to get the firmware to play nice with all the Primes this is a losing battle mass recall is the only real fix at this point.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-superchip.html
http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/nvidia-tegra-3-what-you-need-to-know-1039584
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile...-fifth-core-that-helps-increase-battery-life/
I agree completely. Do you see any other Tegra 3 tabs on the market? Nope. The nearest android tablet coming out is the Toshiba Excite X10, which is an older OMAP 4430 dual-core running @ 1.2GHz (which is undeniably stable). But I don't think its Tegra 3 alone.
A lot of the issues we see with lockups/reboots/battery issues could be how ICS and the apps deal with Tegra 3. But I'm speculating...
Do we have any way of knowing if it's falling back to the 5th low power core? Seems like it's staying with the other 4 on at 475mhz, meaning it does not swap to the 5th core.
I found this as well:
"NVIDIA handles all of the core juggling through its own firmware. Depending on the level of performance Android requests, NVIDIA will either enable the companion core or one or more of the four remaining A9s. The transition should be seamless to the OS"
So was this "fix" ASUS or did it come from NVIDIA? If so then something is broken.
It definitely was nvidia. We wonder why no other tablet is experiencing this problem. Prime is the only one with Tegra 3!
fenturi said:
Do we have any way of knowing if it's falling back to the 5th low power core? Seems like it's staying with the other 4 on at 475mhz, meaning it does not swap to the 5th core.
I found this as well:
"NVIDIA handles all of the core juggling through its own firmware. Depending on the level of performance Android requests, NVIDIA will either enable the companion core or one or more of the four remaining A9s. The transition should be seamless to the OS"
So was this "fix" ASUS or did it come from NVIDIA? If so then something is broken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was from them both bit nothing to loose sleep over. They will be releasing another update soon to revert back to lower speeds. But this issue wasn't new to latest update. The lowest speeds have been raised since .11 update. The raised lower speeds is not the main contributor to excessive battery drain. Something else is at play and causing excessive CPU use and not allowing prime to stay in deep sleep for extended periods of time. Its being discussed in battery drain thread that has me, lock n load, buthx, and g37 discussing it with hard data to back up some claims.
Well it could be worse... at least the Tegra3 is not in my car!
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nv...nt-and-digital-instrument-clusters-2012-01-11
Another trogdor thread....
People.... come on... just cause a bunch of people who have issues with their prime assemble on XDA doesn't mean that the entire prime is useless. i'm pretty positive that 80%+ is happy with the prime.
Besides, a lot of people have been experiencing the lock-ups since the new firmware updates. (so doesn't seem like a hardware issue imo)
SexyAndIKnowIt said:
Another trogdor thread....
People.... come on... just cause a bunch of people who have issues with their prime assemble on XDA doesn't mean that the entire prime is useless. i'm pretty positive that 80%+ is happy with the prime.
Besides, a lot of people have been experiencing the lock-ups since the new firmware updates. (so doesn't seem like a hardware issue imo)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the lockups started with ICS the Primes effected at that time were fixed with 1.13 and now Primes that were perfectly fine are muffed this definitely IS hardware.
What other tab is running ICS? The only ICS/quad core/tegra 3 tablet is the prime. The argument "no other tab is having these problems" is irrelevant. There is no good comparison. Asus promised an update this month and I still expect it.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
I couldnt disagree more! If it was a hardware problem it would have been a problem the whole time even with Honeycomb. I'm sure they will get it right soon. Basicly when Asus updates they need to do a better job of wiping out the old software before the new is programmed in, as a lot us that did 2 or 3 factory reset after the upgrade saw our problems go away. You should also do a factory reset and a cold boot just before upgrading.
The Good
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias-tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed
The Bad and the Ugly
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/11/09/tegra-3-missed-performance-goals-by-wide-margins/
---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------
G37 said:
A lot of the issues we see with lockups/reboots/battery issues could be how ICS and the apps deal with Tegra 3. But I'm speculating...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dianne Hackborn, a Google engineer, has actually commented on the differences between HC and ICS and Google's roll in adapting to different processors. On the former, she said there's no low-level changes between HC and ICS; HC is the base for ICS. On the latter, she said Google doesn't adjust or tune the OS on a per SoC basis. It's up to the manufacturer to create any unique bridge code that's necessary. If you think it would help, Google her and ask her any questions you might have via G+. She's also joined certain threads before.
BarryH_GEG said:
The Good
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias-tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed
The Bad and the Ugly
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/11/09/tegra-3-missed-performance-goals-by-wide-margins/
---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------
Dianne Hackborn, a Google engineer, has actually commented on the differences between HC and ICS and Google's roll in adapting to different processors. On the former, she said there's no low-level changes between HC and ICS; HC is the base for ICS. On the latter, she said Google doesn't adjust or tune the OS on a per SoC basis. It's up to the manufacturer to create any unique bridge code that's necessary. If you think it would help, Google her and ask her any questions you might have via G+. She's also joined certain threads before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-A quote from the bad n ugly link. Its in the comments that stuck out very loud n clear on Semi-Accurate Anti-Nvidia bias
NeelyCam Nov 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm #
My guess is that Charlie is quite a bit off target (as he tends to be with NVidia, with Bumpgate being THE exception).
“According to numbers shown to SemiAccurate, basically every upcoming competitor beats Tegra 3, most by wide margins.”
Yeah, because they’ll be A15 and on 28nm. The problem is, they are 28nm and they aren’t here yet… 28nm yield issues most certainly don’t speed up the introduction of these chips. “On track” my ass.
Last time with Tegra2, NVidia chip was THE game in town for a really long time before others got their act together, and released their own dual A9 chips. And Charlie is a fool if he’s saying Tegra2 was a failure, when instead it was a huge success.
Now, Tegra3 is out well before others (again) AND it doesn’t take a risk with 28nm process/yield failure. My guess is that it will again be a six-month success story before Krait starts yielding well enough.
Dear readers (and analysts alike) – try to see through Charlie’s incomprehensible anti-NVidia bias.
-Another well put comment:
Max Nov 9, 2011 at 6:17 pm #
Terrible article. Tegra 3 is pretty good. I had a hands on with the Transformer Prime and it was very good. I expect ICS will bring further optimisations and use of the extra cores too. The power gating function means it is rated at 13h battery life, that’s pretty damn good.
You are a one man smear machine Charlie, it’s time for you to stop these hatchet jobs on Nvidia because they killed your dog and ate it rebel style. Give up man. Life is too short to hold these types of grudges, what will you be saying when Kal-El 2 comes out at 28nm and it is super competitive and low power? Same rubbish or new rubbish. Seriously, get some perspective on all of this, you are ruining the website with this rubbish because you can’t get serious news or insight on Nvidia because you have some kind of first option on all Nvidia articles and they are all full of crap.
-This one puts everything into perspective thinkn other companies will have the upper hand..lol;
Noone Nov 14, 2011 at 5:34 pm #
I just don’t think nVidia can come in an supplant the ARM chip makers that have been in this space for 15+ years. Qualacomm has more than a decade experience building chips for this market AND they understand the market from almost every aspect.
Yes, even Silicon Graphics was a monster in graphics market but was blown away by nvidia. You forget that being on the market for 15+ years does not help when you cannot innovate as fast as a new competitor. nvidia came with a dual core ARM 18 months before anyone else. Everyone said it was useless to have 2 cores on phones. Now everyone is making dual core SoCs and try to put them in tablets (which were not existing when Tegra2 was presented, that is even before the iPad). nvidia is now out with a quad core design. Yes, it is on 40nm, but some competitor has still not shown in their roadmap a quadcore SoC. nvidia competitors rely on 3rd party GPUs improvements, made by players that have been relegated into mobile market since they were born. nvidia dominates the professional graphics market and knows how to build really powerful GPUs competitors can just dream. Ask yourself why there’s not a big SGX GPUs as complex as a Fermi/Cypress if their architecture is so much better. Simply because not everyone is able to design so complex architectures even though they have a winning part. When you scale up, you have to know how not to make the chip melt down. SGX MP+ GPUs are great, but they are huge (and really huge) and hot. nvidia final target are not smartphones. Qualcomm and TI may be happy to end in that market segment, seen their limited design capacities. nvidia target are much more powerful SoCs that can be used outside mobile market. They are passing through the mobile market, will leave some product there (that’s why they bought Icera) but they will go on on beyond that. Quad core, eight core, more and more powerful and power angry SoC will be created. Not all them will be able to compete in the mobile market for power consumption. But nvidia is and probably will be the first one to introduce new design in the ARM market pushing it in new markets (mids, netbook, notebooks, low end desktops and up). Competition has nothing to give to producers till 28nm transition is complete, and that will happen in few months. At that point they’ll be happy producing their dual core 28nm SoCs while nvidia will come with quad core Cortex-A15 and a completely new GPU design.
When competition will be able with quad cores, nvidia will be one generation ahead. If you have not understood, or you were too young/sleeping at that time see what happened since Riva128 was presented. A no stop innovation made of small steps every 6 months till the competition died just after the first GeForce was announced: none could keep nvidia innovation pace, neither ATI which was saved by AMD before bankruptcy. That market could sustain a 6 month upgrade rate. The mobile probably a little slower pace. But you can see 15+ years actors in this market have 18-24 months design cycles, which is really too slow, even though they come with great design when they arrive (too late).
There are no words Charlie can say about how good/bad Tegra3 is against a no present competition. If you want more power in an ARM SoC you need Tegra3. There are not alternatives up to now and for the next 6-8 months. If you want to stay with the competition, you just can keep using 1 or 2 cores again for a few months. You can make money as well, but you will lose the 15+ market leading position, that is mobile market development and progress will be in the hand of someone else and all you can do is following the trail.
demandarin said:
A quote from the bad n ugly link.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know you hate that article. But if you take off your rose colored glasses, even by eliminating the anti-Nvidia opinion of the author, he explains the architecture, compromises, and risks well. It's ironic that one of the biggest risks he pointed out appears to be happening. That's Nvidia having to tinker with the s/w that controls the various cores to meet both their performance and battery saving goals. You can still love something and admit it has faults. Is your wife or partner faultless? Mine's sure not but I'd make the same decision again.
BarryH_GEG said:
I know you hate that article. But if you take off your rose colored glasses, even by eliminating the anti-Nvidia opinion of the author, he explains the architecture, compromises, and risks well. It's ironic that one of the biggest risks he pointed out appears to be happening. That's Nvidia having to tinker with the s/w that controls the various cores to meet both their performance and battery saving goals. You can still love something and admit it has faults. Is your wife or partner faultless? Mine's sure not but I'd make the same decision again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it has faults. Just like anything else. But in this business you have to be a risk taker and come with something new and innovating. That's why apple is the monster it is now, for the most part. Apple loved tl make things already created even better but still innovating in alot of aspects. I still it was a good move on Nvidia part. This quad core / 5 core is all brand new. That's why they have patent pending on that software technology nvidia uses that allows the cores to communicate in such a fashion. Its a risk that will yells great results sooner than you think.
demandarin said:
Of course it has faults. Just like anything else. But in this business you have to be a risk taker and come with something new and innovating. That's why apple is the monster it is now, for the most part. Apple loved tl make things already created even better but still innovating in alot of aspects. I still it was a good move on Nvidia part. This quad core / 5 core is all brand new. That's why they have patent pending on that software technology nvidia uses that allows the cores to communicate in such a fashion. Its a risk that will yells great results sooner than you think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Barry looks like he didn't understand you lol.......
jdbaker82 said:
Barry looks like he didn't understand you lol.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^^^This guy^^^^^^^^^
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demandarin said:
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Yes, even Silicon Graphics was a monster in graphics market but was blown away by nvidia. You forget that being on the market for 15+ years does not help when you cannot innovate as fast as a new competitor. nvidia came with a dual core ARM 18 months before anyone else. Everyone said it was useless to have 2 cores on phones. Now everyone is making dual core SoCs and try to put them in tablets (which were not existing when Tegra2 was presented, that is even before the iPad). nvidia is now out with a quad core design. Yes, it is on 40nm, but some competitor has still not shown in their roadmap a quadcore SoC. nvidia competitors rely on 3rd party GPUs improvements, made by players that have been relegated into mobile market since they were born. nvidia dominates the professional graphics market and knows how to build really powerful GPUs competitors can just dream. Ask yourself why there’s not a big SGX GPUs as complex as a Fermi/Cypress if their architecture is so much better. Simply because not everyone is able to design so complex architectures even though they have a winning part. When you scale up, you have to know how not to make the chip melt down. SGX MP+ GPUs are great, but they are huge (and really huge) and hot. nvidia final target are not smartphones. Qualcomm and TI may be happy to end in that market segment, seen their limited design capacities. nvidia target are much more powerful SoCs that can be used outside mobile market. They are passing through the mobile market, will leave some product there (that’s why they bought Icera) but they will go on on beyond that. Quad core, eight core, more and more powerful and power angry SoC will be created. Not all them will be able to compete in the mobile market for power consumption. But nvidia is and probably will be the first one to introduce new design in the ARM market pushing it in new markets (mids, netbook, notebooks, low end desktops and up). Competition has nothing to give to producers till 28nm transition is complete, and that will happen in few months. At that point they’ll be happy producing their dual core 28nm SoCs while nvidia will come with quad core Cortex-A15 and a completely new GPU design.
When competition will be able with quad cores, nvidia will be one generation ahead. If you have not understood, or you were too young/sleeping at that time see what happened since Riva128 was presented. A no stop innovation made of small steps every 6 months till the competition died just after the first GeForce was announced: none could keep nvidia innovation pace, neither ATI which was saved by AMD before bankruptcy. That market could sustain a 6 month upgrade rate. The mobile probably a little slower pace. But you can see 15+ years actors in this market have 18-24 months design cycles, which is really too slow, even though they come with great design when they arrive (too late).
There are no words Charlie can say about how good/bad Tegra3 is against a no present competition. If you want more power in an ARM SoC you need Tegra3. There are not alternatives up to now and for the next 6-8 months. If you want to stay with the competition, you just can keep using 1 or 2 cores again for a few months. You can make money as well, but you will lose the 15+ market leading position, that is mobile market development and progress will be in the hand of someone else and all you can do is following the trail.
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Can you tell me how Nvidia is dominating professional graphics market? Dominating as in RIGHT NOW.. I'm sure AMD/ATI enthusiast will disagree.
Adreno GPU (developed by Qualcomm in-house), and Mali GPU.. (developed in house by Samsung)... Only Apple & TI uses 3rd party GPU from PowerVR (granted.. Samsung recently got some license from PowerVR and Sony uses PowerVR in PS Vita).
And by roadmap.. do you mean plans? I'm sure Krait is quadcore, same with Apple A6...
Or did you mean by roadmap with devices from OEM?? I'm sure we'll find out more in MWC..
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5118/qualcomm-announces-a-bunch-of-krait-based-snapdragon-s4-socs
"I'm not sure how much competition Krait will see until OMAP 5 devices show up in the latter part of 2012, unless Apple decides to put out a Cortex A15 A6 SoC earlier. NVIDIA has already shown its hand with Tegra 3, and Wayne won't show up until late next year as well."
So, we won't see Nvidia's 28nm quad core til later(or possibly next yr)...of which, it might be behind Apple, Qualcomm, TI... or at least in line with Krait & OMAP 5 launch.
And until we see some actual comparison between Qualcomm 28nm dual core & Samsung's A-15 SoC Exynos (which is just around the corner).... I'll hold my judgement on how it compares to Tegra 3.
jdbaker82 said:
Barry looks like he didn't understand you lol.......
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No, this is a particularly sensitive issue for him and I get that. I'm not trying to put down Nvidia, they deserve huge credit for the innovation they've applied in the mobile market. But, they've gone 180 degrees in another direction from their competitors with Teg3 and it’s yet to be proven whether that was the right decision. Leaving out NEON in Teg2 was certainly not a great decision and one they made in deference to time to market. It's odd that, as of now (February), there aren't any other Teg3 devices in production or even imminent (next 60 days). Unless there are some big Teg3-based devices announced at MWC it would appear manufactures may be a little skeptical too.
In product management the success (or failure) of a product is measured in years not months. While we all wait eagerly for the "next big thing" manufacturers weigh short-term gains vs. long-term success with $’s trumping all. With everyone having equal access to Teg3, Asus being first may have been a choice intentionally made by their competitors. Like so many things with the Prime, only time will tell.
Of course this could be read as just a touch of FUD and sour grapes while Intel jump on the bandwagon driven by ARM, but the guy may have a point:
But Bell was scathing of existing implementations, which he partly put down to software issues with Android itself. “Android doesn’t make as effective use of multi-core as it could,” he said.
“In some of the use cases we’ve seen, [the] second core is detrimental because of scheduling.” Having looked at the multi-core options on the market, he said, the performance didn’t justify “the size and cost of putting in that part".
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Full article at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/07/intel_bell_mobile_launch/
Seeing how Intel's current affair with the Android mobile market is a single-core (although with HT) Atom CPU, I'm sure they're ever so slightly biased
That said, he might be on to something. I'm pretty sure Google (and the handset makers) could do a lot more to increase the efficiency and usage of multi-core CPUs. And, since Android is constantly in development, I'm sure they will.
I like intel, I own intel stock, if I were to build a server it would utilize intel parts. But this explaination is imo BS. Why include HT if it were so?
android can improve (and I wish google would stop tracking every program we ever use) but so can mobile x86. For my portfolio's sake I hope it does lol
>“Android doesn’t make as effective use of multi-core as it could,” he said.
It's a tempest in a teapot. Android is still mostly on phones--tablet-specific apps are few--so CPU performance isn't a big deal. You can see it in the usual X-vs-Y comparisons. Most of them use synthetic benchmarks rather than actual apps or games. We geeks get excited about which is the fastest phone, but it's irrelevant. The gating factor is perf-driven apps, of which there are few on phones.
This is no different to Nokia CEO Stephen Elop saying that multi-core is a waste of battery on a mobile phone, when his company has staked it's future on a mobile OS that doesn't currently support multi-core processors.
If they can't play "me too", just slag off those that can.
FUD pure and simple!
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
The guy's a chode. Intel can't into multicore so he's buttangery.
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I remember when the first dual core phones came out, there were naysayers saying exactly the same thing, android doesnt fully support it yet, its a waste of money and resources, yadda yadda yadda... Now android 4 DOES support multi core and support is going to get even better in further updates. Its like with windows 10 years ago saying that DVD or Blueray support was useless because most people only had CD drives.... well look where the tech is now nearly everyone has a DVD drive and half have a Blueray drive.
However lets have another look at hyperthreading.... came out about the same time as dual core CPUs and unfortunately more devices went withdual core instead of HT. now, several years later, we are seeing support for both dual cores and HT on the same chip.
Making my point: Saying Dual Core android devices are useless is shortsighted. Thats the direction the tech is headed, i love that extra power boost when i play things like Nova 3, and yes scheduler tweaking and other problems are still there but it doesnt mean the tech is useless, its just new, and like all new tech it still needs a chance to grow.
http://www.phonedog.com/2012/06/11/...really-detrimental-to-the-android-experience/
merp link isnt working for me so a second link
http://www.pcworld.com/article/257307/dual_core_processors_wasted_on_android_intel_claims.html
according to intels general manager dual cores are not doing us any good. That obviously means quadcores are going to do even less for us.
Just Intel propaganda as they are trying to get into the mobile processor market.
Hmm perhaps but at the same time makes sense. These phones should fly but I also know it has to do with the VM
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ckoadiyn said:
Hmm perhaps but at the same time makes sense. These phones should fly but I also know it has to do with the VM
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The thing we have to realize here is that Android was designed to cater to different hardware configurations vs let's say Apple's direction for mobile, they have control of the hardware so they can customize drivers with their software.It also depends how the application uses the hardware too. Dual-core "I believe" is about right, because these apps are not really going to utilize it.
Intel needs to "put their money where their mouth is." All they need to do is make a single core soc that competes with the s4 and tegra 3 AND within a reasonable budget for me to believe and trust them. Till then its just smack talk.
guy has a point there, and a valid one...I remember when we got the first dual core phone and it wasn't nearly optimized to take full use of it...So in the end it makes sense overall...Esp when you look at it from apps and everything else that doesn't take full advantage of everything available...least thats my thinking on it...
BUT I highly doubt Intel is scared and trying to pull a marketing scheme as some of the things they announced at CES for the future of mobile SoC line for them was amazing...down the the tiny nm processing to the features pushing for...
Also its Intel....their stuff wont be bad in the end of things, once they get solid footing here...
sgt. slaughter said:
guy has a point there, and a valid one...I remember when we got the first dual core phone and it wasn't nearly optimized to take full use of it...So in the end it makes sense overall...Esp when you look at it from apps and everything else that doesn't take full advantage of everything available...least thats my thinking on it...
BUT I highly doubt Intel is scared and trying to pull a marketing scheme as some of the things they announced at CES for the future of mobile SoC line for them was amazing...down the the tiny nm processing to the features pushing for...
Also its Intel....their stuff wont be bad in the end of things, once they get solid footing here...
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Thank you first logical post lol obviously its a marketing scheme not like they don't almost have a monopoly anyways. Lol and I think dual cores this gen anyways is somewhat better then the s3 and I'm sure they are better then the exynos.
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Not the right person to believe. It's like believing Steve jobs when he said people don't want phones larger than 3.5" screen.
Once their stuff is released and a third party with no ties, including advertising, can test it then i will believe.
ckoadiyn said:
Thank you first logical post lol obviously its a marketing scheme not like they don't almost have a monopoly anyways. Lol and I think dual cores this gen anyways is somewhat better then the s3 and I'm sure they are better then the exynos.
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Actually, Intel has maybe a 5% market share in chips. So they don't have a monopoly lol. There's this one company with a super high market share, I forgot the name.
But this is interesting. Reminds of the "S4 is faster because Android isn't made for quad cores!" argument.
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I'd bet that most lower-end dual-core Androids really aren't optimized for it. There are some pretty cheap handsets out there, and the experience with them sucks.
On the other hand, though, the manufacturers who make quality phones (HTC) know what they're doing.
It sounds just like the argument iPhans used to make two years ago - they'd talk about how Android was not a good OS because the phones they tried were laggy, slow, and stuttered... ignoring entirely the fact that they were playing with the cheap Android phones. Put a resource-intensive OS in cheap hardware and the experience will suck.
And to an earlier point, Intel is trying to get into the mobile space... and their mobile processors are single core. It's in their best interest to make people leery of their dual-core competition.
I agree with the article 100%, mostly. For now, all enabling dual cores does is inflate useless benchmarks and kill the battery.
The bad part of the article is trying to compare today's processor arch with old stuff.
My personal opinion... Taylor Martin is a moron. Most of his articles on Phonedog are useless!
Medfield is a single core. Maybe they are just trying to defend their product.
Ragster said:
Actually, Intel has maybe a 5% market share in chips. So they don't have a monopoly lol. There's this one company with a super high market share, I forgot the name.
But this is interesting. Reminds of the "S4 is faster because Android isn't made for quad cores!" argument.
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Even in the pc world? That's what I was referring to I understand mobile wise they don't have much or any... Hence the they don't need a scheme
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This article is about 99.99% right. There is some obvious bias in it, but it holds a lot of truth.
The fact is that Android wasn't built to be "silky smooth". Take a look at WP7 for example, those phones run as smooth as any phone can run and they are all single core processors, yesteryear android specs. The architecture of the OS is 100x more important than processing power and it's sad to say that Google absolutely did not focus on this when they started creating Android. Keep in mine that they started before Apple or Windows in building Android, so they probably just didn't have the foresight.
With that being said, I am as big of an Android fan as any of you and I don't plan on changing any time soon but the fact remains that our operating system will most likely never be as smooth as WP or ios. We win by a milestone though when it comes to functionality.
It is difficult for Me to believe that a phone is outranking my beautiful TF201, according to anatutu.
Im a tad disappointed.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
They are different devices doing different things. Phones typically have a lot more going on with their internal processes than tablets, so I don't think that the SIII is going to be significantly faster in real-world use.
With that said, the TP has been out for about seven months now, and the SIII has only been out for a couple of weeks. The logical progression of things like this is that new top-end devices will always be faster than old top-end devices. The TP hasn't stopped being an excellent device that shines in its own right, but it will be considered an antique in a couple of years.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA
Never followed up to say thanks for your opinion. I just wish Asus would put the effort into their hardware as apple does.
Anyway, I love my Prime but rarely use it anymore, now that I have my Galaxy s2, and an i3 Dell laptop to tether to my phone.
Besides my white s2 looks majestic compared to.....whatever they want to call that s3 design
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cragains said:
It is difficult for Me to believe that a phone is outranking my beautiful TF201, according to anatutu.
Im a tad disappointed.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
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New devices are faster than older devices. This is nothing new.
Also, practically no apps really take full advantage of all of the processing power that the Prime has to offer. It isn't as if app hardware requirements are about to jump up to the point where they won't run on your Prime any longer so specs aren't really all that important anyway.
IMO the spec-race with regards to Android devices really needs to slow down. I am all for more powerful devices but since the software isn't exactly racing to keep up increasing the specs past a certain point just make hardware more expensive.
Companies would be better off focusing that money on stuff like better cameras, better screens, improved battery life, better build materials & processes and improving software development in order to really iron out all of their new software features and ensure a better over-all user experience.
almightywhacko said:
New devices are faster than older devices. This is nothing new.
Also, practically no apps really take full advantage of all of the processing power that the Prime has to offer. It isn't as if app hardware requirements are about to jump up to the point where they won't run on your Prime any longer so specs aren't really all that important anyway.
IMO the spec-race with regards to Android devices really needs to slow down. I am all for more powerful devices but since the software isn't exactly racing to keep up increasing the specs past a certain point just make hardware more expensive.
Companies would be better off focusing that money on stuff like better cameras, better screens, improved battery life, better build materials & processes and improving software development in order to really iron out all of their new software features and ensure a better over-all user experience.
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Word!
Also minor changes are made to the interface of Android. Companies should focus on making their devices more unique than powerful. I used to make fun of iphone owners by saying that the interface (which seems to be designed by a 5-year-old) has not changed since the first iphone. But now I guess the same can be said about android phones. If google is not willing to make bold changes, mobile makers should take the first steps and do it.
You are just bragging about "apps doesn't support quad core", "we cant see tegra power". Bull****. Tegra is full of crap. Android is full of crap really. U buy a 4 core tablet, no app supporting this amount of cores (and let's ****in face it - this tablet performs like **** with I/O problems). I mean wtf? Going with iPad next time!
martinesko36 said:
You are just bragging about "apps doesn't support quad core", "we cant see tegra power". Bull****. Tegra is full of crap. Android is full of crap really. U buy a 4 core tablet, no app supporting this amount of cores (and let's ****in face it - this tablet performs like **** with I/O problems). I mean wtf? Going with iPad next time!
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So... can I say that iOS is crap too because of fake multitasking, lack of homescreen, ripping off the notification centre, lack of customisability and only dual-core CPU? Similarly, can I also say the iPad is crap because it's overpriced, evolutionary rather than revolutionary jump from iPad 2 to iPad 3, only a 5MP camera, heavier than the Prime, thicker than the Prime, no 600nit display, no official keyboard dock, no storage expansion options and overpriced accessories?
Really? We have to revert back to another ipad vs. Transfner Prime thread? I thought these silly arguments were over with.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA
I was going to write a long post about how the prime is over a doubling period old and its still one of the top contenders but i realized its useless.
Why complain that a device thats over 6 months old isnt the best on the market? Especially when it was overrated and still has lots of problems
Also consider samsung's reputation in making high end devices. Their quad core tablet will, i expect, out perform the prime or the 700 with ease, mind you without the fancy accessories.
Sometimes i wonder why i even bother...
Yeah, prime owners including myself have had some issues. Still I am, and always have been very satisfied with it. I sadly
fell on the "if I run 10 apps on my Prime it shuts down"-train and ran some tweaks. It's running "faster" now but I have no idea
why I did it as it was doing all I wanted in the first place!
Now to my point, norwegian site www.itavisen.no today released an article with pictures of a guys S3 actually "exploding"
shooting out white flames and melting. No kidding. The phone is on it's way to Samsung for testing. With a recall
possibility. As I said we've had our share, but this. And that's samsung, known for build quality. Lol
So no it's not only Asus.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Ya as we constantly move towards faster, more powerfull, smaller, we are pushing limits and things will occasionally break down or not work as expected. Got a link to the S3 video?
The S3 in Canada is only dual core, kind of useless, why should i upgrade from my S2 which is clocked slightly slower and just has slightly less memory? Other than that my phone works awesome and after tweaking i dont have issues with anything.
pileot said:
Ya as we constantly move towards faster, more powerfull, smaller, we are pushing limits and things will occasionally break down or not work as expected. Got a link to the S3 video?
The S3 in Canada is only dual core, kind of useless, why should i upgrade from my S2 which is clocked slightly slower and just has slightly less memory? Other than that my phone works awesome and after tweaking i dont have issues with anything.
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Here's a direct link to the forum with fotos http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056677034 . How they can claim it's a fault of the carmount and heater I don't know, must be very heat sensitive.
Looks like it fried near where the 3g/4g antennas are, perhaps a poor connection? Aparently samsung took the phone for testing, will be watching this topic closely since im interested in geting a SGS3 when the prices come down.
pileot said:
The S3 in Canada is only dual core, kind of useless, why should i upgrade from my S2 which is clocked slightly slower and just has slightly less memory? Other than that my phone works awesome and after tweaking i dont have issues with anything.
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Snapdragon S2 and S3 use the Scorpion core, which takes some of the best features of both Cortex-A8 and Cortex-A9 ARM core designs and brings them into a single ARM core....
Snapdragon S4 uses the Krait core, which takes the best features of the Cortex-A9 and the Cortex-A15 ARM core designs with a much better manufacturing process to produce smaller chips that are far more power efficient and deliver amazing amounts of performance compared to its competitors (which are Cortex-A9 based). This is why dual-core Snapdragon S4 devices can go toe to toe with the quad-core Tegra 3 and Exynos 4 on the CPU front.
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This is a quote from http://www.tmonews.com/2012/05/editorial-why-a-snapdragon-s4-galaxy-s-iii-is-awesome/ . It kind of stings a little to see the dual core s4 beating my Prime in benchmarks with half the cores, but that is technology and I'm still happy with my prime.
As far as comparing the speed of the S2 to the S3, the S3 should be a very noticeable difference. A15 is much better than A9 AND Qualcomm has a license to develop their own ARM CPU cores. Also, the S2 will have half the RAM of the S3. I don't feel like that is "slightly less"
ZebTheCalvinist said:
They are different devices doing different things. Phones typically have a lot more going on with their internal processes than tablets, so I don't think that the SIII is going to be significantly faster in real-world use.
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Really? Tell me more about it, I'm using Transformer Prime and Galaxy S3 international version.
fordwolden said:
Yeah, prime owners including myself have had some issues. Still I am, and always have been very satisfied with it. I sadly
fell on the "if I run 10 apps on my Prime it shuts down"-train and ran some tweaks. It's running "faster" now but I have no idea
why I did it as it was doing all I wanted in the first place!
Now to my point, norwegian site www.itavisen.no today released an article with pictures of a guys S3 actually "exploding"
shooting out white flames and melting. No kidding. The phone is on it's way to Samsung for testing. With a recall
possibility. As I said we've had our share, but this. And that's samsung, known for build quality. Lol
So no it's not only Asus.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
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9 million pre orders and only 1 case of malfunction? Pretty damn good build quality.
ASUS Transformer Prime, unsure amount of sales, redundant "note taking" screen digitizer, incompetent IO and a whole heap load of complaints regarding screen flicker and FC issue. Well, we have a winner here.
It doesn't matter what scores benchmarking apps like Antutu shows, my Prime scores a 13k while my S3 scores 11.9k. It's more to being able to do what it's suppose to do, not crashing and more Force Crashes or having Severe lag while transfering files within the system.
S3 didn't kill the TF201, ASUS just failed to deliver what TF201 is meant to be.
MXR2 said:
9 million pre orders and only 1 case of malfunction? Pretty damn good build quality.
ASUS Transformer Prime, unsure amount of sales, redundant "note taking" screen digitizer, incompetent IO and a whole heap load of complaints regarding screen flicker and FC issue. Well, we have a winner here.
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My point was I'd rather be one of the 2 million people with I/O problems (which it seems _motley are doing some great things with in his new 3.0.6 kernel) than to be the one in 9 million that gets the device that shoots out white flames when I'm walking around with it in my jeanspocket at a downward 45 degree angle. Just saying.
fordwolden said:
My point was I'd rather be one of the 2 million people with I/O problems (which it seems _motley are doing some great things with in his new 3.0.6 kernel) than to be the one in 9 million that gets the device that shoots out white flames when I'm walking around with it in my jeanspocket at a downward 45 degree angle. Just saying.
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I don't think I can really draw a comparison between these two at all. It's different then apples and oranges, it's like an avocado and a rump roast.
The exploding GS3 doesn't tell me much, it's an extreme case and I don't know what other variables are thrown in the mix. Regardless of benchmark scores, I'm very happy with my prime. Is the quality better than that of the ipad? No, not at all in my opinion. But I didn't buy it to compare to my ipad, I bought it to play with and I have A LOT of fun with it building and modding and tweaking.