A lot of this is starting to feel connected to the tegra3.
So, my guess is the ones that rebooted needed more voltage and could not deal with switching cpu's on and off.
So now that we have all 4 on all the time, the ones that can't handle that are showing flaws.
To me it seems like this could be a manufacturing issue with the tegra3.
I'm sure some of the issues could be ICS+tegra3 as well.
Is there someplace that has info on the tegra3? Not many devices have it yet.
fenturi said:
A lot of this is starting to feel connected to the tegra3.
So, my guess is the ones that rebooted needed more voltage and could not deal with switching cpu's on and off.
So now that we have all 4 on all the time, the ones that can't handle that are showing flaws.
To me it seems like this could be a manufacturing issue with the tegra3.
I'm sure some of the issues could be ICS+tegra3 as well.
Is there someplace that has info on the tegra3? Not many devices have it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been saying for at least a month now this is all because of hardware and manufacturing differences with the processor. In other words everyone is screwed because this is not something where software can just magically make all of the Primes play nice which they already proved with the latest update it fixed some Primes with original lockup issue while borking ones that were perfectly fine..... not only that they are degrading our battery life severely trying to get the firmware to play nice with all the Primes this is a losing battle mass recall is the only real fix at this point.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-superchip.html
http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/nvidia-tegra-3-what-you-need-to-know-1039584
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile...-fifth-core-that-helps-increase-battery-life/
I agree completely. Do you see any other Tegra 3 tabs on the market? Nope. The nearest android tablet coming out is the Toshiba Excite X10, which is an older OMAP 4430 dual-core running @ 1.2GHz (which is undeniably stable). But I don't think its Tegra 3 alone.
A lot of the issues we see with lockups/reboots/battery issues could be how ICS and the apps deal with Tegra 3. But I'm speculating...
Do we have any way of knowing if it's falling back to the 5th low power core? Seems like it's staying with the other 4 on at 475mhz, meaning it does not swap to the 5th core.
I found this as well:
"NVIDIA handles all of the core juggling through its own firmware. Depending on the level of performance Android requests, NVIDIA will either enable the companion core or one or more of the four remaining A9s. The transition should be seamless to the OS"
So was this "fix" ASUS or did it come from NVIDIA? If so then something is broken.
It definitely was nvidia. We wonder why no other tablet is experiencing this problem. Prime is the only one with Tegra 3!
fenturi said:
Do we have any way of knowing if it's falling back to the 5th low power core? Seems like it's staying with the other 4 on at 475mhz, meaning it does not swap to the 5th core.
I found this as well:
"NVIDIA handles all of the core juggling through its own firmware. Depending on the level of performance Android requests, NVIDIA will either enable the companion core or one or more of the four remaining A9s. The transition should be seamless to the OS"
So was this "fix" ASUS or did it come from NVIDIA? If so then something is broken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was from them both bit nothing to loose sleep over. They will be releasing another update soon to revert back to lower speeds. But this issue wasn't new to latest update. The lowest speeds have been raised since .11 update. The raised lower speeds is not the main contributor to excessive battery drain. Something else is at play and causing excessive CPU use and not allowing prime to stay in deep sleep for extended periods of time. Its being discussed in battery drain thread that has me, lock n load, buthx, and g37 discussing it with hard data to back up some claims.
Well it could be worse... at least the Tegra3 is not in my car!
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nv...nt-and-digital-instrument-clusters-2012-01-11
Another trogdor thread....
People.... come on... just cause a bunch of people who have issues with their prime assemble on XDA doesn't mean that the entire prime is useless. i'm pretty positive that 80%+ is happy with the prime.
Besides, a lot of people have been experiencing the lock-ups since the new firmware updates. (so doesn't seem like a hardware issue imo)
SexyAndIKnowIt said:
Another trogdor thread....
People.... come on... just cause a bunch of people who have issues with their prime assemble on XDA doesn't mean that the entire prime is useless. i'm pretty positive that 80%+ is happy with the prime.
Besides, a lot of people have been experiencing the lock-ups since the new firmware updates. (so doesn't seem like a hardware issue imo)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the lockups started with ICS the Primes effected at that time were fixed with 1.13 and now Primes that were perfectly fine are muffed this definitely IS hardware.
What other tab is running ICS? The only ICS/quad core/tegra 3 tablet is the prime. The argument "no other tab is having these problems" is irrelevant. There is no good comparison. Asus promised an update this month and I still expect it.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
I couldnt disagree more! If it was a hardware problem it would have been a problem the whole time even with Honeycomb. I'm sure they will get it right soon. Basicly when Asus updates they need to do a better job of wiping out the old software before the new is programmed in, as a lot us that did 2 or 3 factory reset after the upgrade saw our problems go away. You should also do a factory reset and a cold boot just before upgrading.
The Good
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias-tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed
The Bad and the Ugly
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/11/09/tegra-3-missed-performance-goals-by-wide-margins/
---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------
G37 said:
A lot of the issues we see with lockups/reboots/battery issues could be how ICS and the apps deal with Tegra 3. But I'm speculating...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dianne Hackborn, a Google engineer, has actually commented on the differences between HC and ICS and Google's roll in adapting to different processors. On the former, she said there's no low-level changes between HC and ICS; HC is the base for ICS. On the latter, she said Google doesn't adjust or tune the OS on a per SoC basis. It's up to the manufacturer to create any unique bridge code that's necessary. If you think it would help, Google her and ask her any questions you might have via G+. She's also joined certain threads before.
BarryH_GEG said:
The Good
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5072/nvidias-tegra-3-launched-architecture-revealed
The Bad and the Ugly
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/11/09/tegra-3-missed-performance-goals-by-wide-margins/
---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------
Dianne Hackborn, a Google engineer, has actually commented on the differences between HC and ICS and Google's roll in adapting to different processors. On the former, she said there's no low-level changes between HC and ICS; HC is the base for ICS. On the latter, she said Google doesn't adjust or tune the OS on a per SoC basis. It's up to the manufacturer to create any unique bridge code that's necessary. If you think it would help, Google her and ask her any questions you might have via G+. She's also joined certain threads before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-A quote from the bad n ugly link. Its in the comments that stuck out very loud n clear on Semi-Accurate Anti-Nvidia bias
NeelyCam Nov 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm #
My guess is that Charlie is quite a bit off target (as he tends to be with NVidia, with Bumpgate being THE exception).
“According to numbers shown to SemiAccurate, basically every upcoming competitor beats Tegra 3, most by wide margins.”
Yeah, because they’ll be A15 and on 28nm. The problem is, they are 28nm and they aren’t here yet… 28nm yield issues most certainly don’t speed up the introduction of these chips. “On track” my ass.
Last time with Tegra2, NVidia chip was THE game in town for a really long time before others got their act together, and released their own dual A9 chips. And Charlie is a fool if he’s saying Tegra2 was a failure, when instead it was a huge success.
Now, Tegra3 is out well before others (again) AND it doesn’t take a risk with 28nm process/yield failure. My guess is that it will again be a six-month success story before Krait starts yielding well enough.
Dear readers (and analysts alike) – try to see through Charlie’s incomprehensible anti-NVidia bias.
-Another well put comment:
Max Nov 9, 2011 at 6:17 pm #
Terrible article. Tegra 3 is pretty good. I had a hands on with the Transformer Prime and it was very good. I expect ICS will bring further optimisations and use of the extra cores too. The power gating function means it is rated at 13h battery life, that’s pretty damn good.
You are a one man smear machine Charlie, it’s time for you to stop these hatchet jobs on Nvidia because they killed your dog and ate it rebel style. Give up man. Life is too short to hold these types of grudges, what will you be saying when Kal-El 2 comes out at 28nm and it is super competitive and low power? Same rubbish or new rubbish. Seriously, get some perspective on all of this, you are ruining the website with this rubbish because you can’t get serious news or insight on Nvidia because you have some kind of first option on all Nvidia articles and they are all full of crap.
-This one puts everything into perspective thinkn other companies will have the upper hand..lol;
Noone Nov 14, 2011 at 5:34 pm #
I just don’t think nVidia can come in an supplant the ARM chip makers that have been in this space for 15+ years. Qualacomm has more than a decade experience building chips for this market AND they understand the market from almost every aspect.
Yes, even Silicon Graphics was a monster in graphics market but was blown away by nvidia. You forget that being on the market for 15+ years does not help when you cannot innovate as fast as a new competitor. nvidia came with a dual core ARM 18 months before anyone else. Everyone said it was useless to have 2 cores on phones. Now everyone is making dual core SoCs and try to put them in tablets (which were not existing when Tegra2 was presented, that is even before the iPad). nvidia is now out with a quad core design. Yes, it is on 40nm, but some competitor has still not shown in their roadmap a quadcore SoC. nvidia competitors rely on 3rd party GPUs improvements, made by players that have been relegated into mobile market since they were born. nvidia dominates the professional graphics market and knows how to build really powerful GPUs competitors can just dream. Ask yourself why there’s not a big SGX GPUs as complex as a Fermi/Cypress if their architecture is so much better. Simply because not everyone is able to design so complex architectures even though they have a winning part. When you scale up, you have to know how not to make the chip melt down. SGX MP+ GPUs are great, but they are huge (and really huge) and hot. nvidia final target are not smartphones. Qualcomm and TI may be happy to end in that market segment, seen their limited design capacities. nvidia target are much more powerful SoCs that can be used outside mobile market. They are passing through the mobile market, will leave some product there (that’s why they bought Icera) but they will go on on beyond that. Quad core, eight core, more and more powerful and power angry SoC will be created. Not all them will be able to compete in the mobile market for power consumption. But nvidia is and probably will be the first one to introduce new design in the ARM market pushing it in new markets (mids, netbook, notebooks, low end desktops and up). Competition has nothing to give to producers till 28nm transition is complete, and that will happen in few months. At that point they’ll be happy producing their dual core 28nm SoCs while nvidia will come with quad core Cortex-A15 and a completely new GPU design.
When competition will be able with quad cores, nvidia will be one generation ahead. If you have not understood, or you were too young/sleeping at that time see what happened since Riva128 was presented. A no stop innovation made of small steps every 6 months till the competition died just after the first GeForce was announced: none could keep nvidia innovation pace, neither ATI which was saved by AMD before bankruptcy. That market could sustain a 6 month upgrade rate. The mobile probably a little slower pace. But you can see 15+ years actors in this market have 18-24 months design cycles, which is really too slow, even though they come with great design when they arrive (too late).
There are no words Charlie can say about how good/bad Tegra3 is against a no present competition. If you want more power in an ARM SoC you need Tegra3. There are not alternatives up to now and for the next 6-8 months. If you want to stay with the competition, you just can keep using 1 or 2 cores again for a few months. You can make money as well, but you will lose the 15+ market leading position, that is mobile market development and progress will be in the hand of someone else and all you can do is following the trail.
demandarin said:
A quote from the bad n ugly link.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know you hate that article. But if you take off your rose colored glasses, even by eliminating the anti-Nvidia opinion of the author, he explains the architecture, compromises, and risks well. It's ironic that one of the biggest risks he pointed out appears to be happening. That's Nvidia having to tinker with the s/w that controls the various cores to meet both their performance and battery saving goals. You can still love something and admit it has faults. Is your wife or partner faultless? Mine's sure not but I'd make the same decision again.
BarryH_GEG said:
I know you hate that article. But if you take off your rose colored glasses, even by eliminating the anti-Nvidia opinion of the author, he explains the architecture, compromises, and risks well. It's ironic that one of the biggest risks he pointed out appears to be happening. That's Nvidia having to tinker with the s/w that controls the various cores to meet both their performance and battery saving goals. You can still love something and admit it has faults. Is your wife or partner faultless? Mine's sure not but I'd make the same decision again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it has faults. Just like anything else. But in this business you have to be a risk taker and come with something new and innovating. That's why apple is the monster it is now, for the most part. Apple loved tl make things already created even better but still innovating in alot of aspects. I still it was a good move on Nvidia part. This quad core / 5 core is all brand new. That's why they have patent pending on that software technology nvidia uses that allows the cores to communicate in such a fashion. Its a risk that will yells great results sooner than you think.
demandarin said:
Of course it has faults. Just like anything else. But in this business you have to be a risk taker and come with something new and innovating. That's why apple is the monster it is now, for the most part. Apple loved tl make things already created even better but still innovating in alot of aspects. I still it was a good move on Nvidia part. This quad core / 5 core is all brand new. That's why they have patent pending on that software technology nvidia uses that allows the cores to communicate in such a fashion. Its a risk that will yells great results sooner than you think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Barry looks like he didn't understand you lol.......
jdbaker82 said:
Barry looks like he didn't understand you lol.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^^^This guy^^^^^^^^^
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demandarin said:
-
Yes, even Silicon Graphics was a monster in graphics market but was blown away by nvidia. You forget that being on the market for 15+ years does not help when you cannot innovate as fast as a new competitor. nvidia came with a dual core ARM 18 months before anyone else. Everyone said it was useless to have 2 cores on phones. Now everyone is making dual core SoCs and try to put them in tablets (which were not existing when Tegra2 was presented, that is even before the iPad). nvidia is now out with a quad core design. Yes, it is on 40nm, but some competitor has still not shown in their roadmap a quadcore SoC. nvidia competitors rely on 3rd party GPUs improvements, made by players that have been relegated into mobile market since they were born. nvidia dominates the professional graphics market and knows how to build really powerful GPUs competitors can just dream. Ask yourself why there’s not a big SGX GPUs as complex as a Fermi/Cypress if their architecture is so much better. Simply because not everyone is able to design so complex architectures even though they have a winning part. When you scale up, you have to know how not to make the chip melt down. SGX MP+ GPUs are great, but they are huge (and really huge) and hot. nvidia final target are not smartphones. Qualcomm and TI may be happy to end in that market segment, seen their limited design capacities. nvidia target are much more powerful SoCs that can be used outside mobile market. They are passing through the mobile market, will leave some product there (that’s why they bought Icera) but they will go on on beyond that. Quad core, eight core, more and more powerful and power angry SoC will be created. Not all them will be able to compete in the mobile market for power consumption. But nvidia is and probably will be the first one to introduce new design in the ARM market pushing it in new markets (mids, netbook, notebooks, low end desktops and up). Competition has nothing to give to producers till 28nm transition is complete, and that will happen in few months. At that point they’ll be happy producing their dual core 28nm SoCs while nvidia will come with quad core Cortex-A15 and a completely new GPU design.
When competition will be able with quad cores, nvidia will be one generation ahead. If you have not understood, or you were too young/sleeping at that time see what happened since Riva128 was presented. A no stop innovation made of small steps every 6 months till the competition died just after the first GeForce was announced: none could keep nvidia innovation pace, neither ATI which was saved by AMD before bankruptcy. That market could sustain a 6 month upgrade rate. The mobile probably a little slower pace. But you can see 15+ years actors in this market have 18-24 months design cycles, which is really too slow, even though they come with great design when they arrive (too late).
There are no words Charlie can say about how good/bad Tegra3 is against a no present competition. If you want more power in an ARM SoC you need Tegra3. There are not alternatives up to now and for the next 6-8 months. If you want to stay with the competition, you just can keep using 1 or 2 cores again for a few months. You can make money as well, but you will lose the 15+ market leading position, that is mobile market development and progress will be in the hand of someone else and all you can do is following the trail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell me how Nvidia is dominating professional graphics market? Dominating as in RIGHT NOW.. I'm sure AMD/ATI enthusiast will disagree.
Adreno GPU (developed by Qualcomm in-house), and Mali GPU.. (developed in house by Samsung)... Only Apple & TI uses 3rd party GPU from PowerVR (granted.. Samsung recently got some license from PowerVR and Sony uses PowerVR in PS Vita).
And by roadmap.. do you mean plans? I'm sure Krait is quadcore, same with Apple A6...
Or did you mean by roadmap with devices from OEM?? I'm sure we'll find out more in MWC..
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5118/qualcomm-announces-a-bunch-of-krait-based-snapdragon-s4-socs
"I'm not sure how much competition Krait will see until OMAP 5 devices show up in the latter part of 2012, unless Apple decides to put out a Cortex A15 A6 SoC earlier. NVIDIA has already shown its hand with Tegra 3, and Wayne won't show up until late next year as well."
So, we won't see Nvidia's 28nm quad core til later(or possibly next yr)...of which, it might be behind Apple, Qualcomm, TI... or at least in line with Krait & OMAP 5 launch.
And until we see some actual comparison between Qualcomm 28nm dual core & Samsung's A-15 SoC Exynos (which is just around the corner).... I'll hold my judgement on how it compares to Tegra 3.
jdbaker82 said:
Barry looks like he didn't understand you lol.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is a particularly sensitive issue for him and I get that. I'm not trying to put down Nvidia, they deserve huge credit for the innovation they've applied in the mobile market. But, they've gone 180 degrees in another direction from their competitors with Teg3 and it’s yet to be proven whether that was the right decision. Leaving out NEON in Teg2 was certainly not a great decision and one they made in deference to time to market. It's odd that, as of now (February), there aren't any other Teg3 devices in production or even imminent (next 60 days). Unless there are some big Teg3-based devices announced at MWC it would appear manufactures may be a little skeptical too.
In product management the success (or failure) of a product is measured in years not months. While we all wait eagerly for the "next big thing" manufacturers weigh short-term gains vs. long-term success with $’s trumping all. With everyone having equal access to Teg3, Asus being first may have been a choice intentionally made by their competitors. Like so many things with the Prime, only time will tell.
Related
I'm sure the Evo 3d will be every bit as capable as the Tegra 2 devices. But nvidia has the developers courted in a big way. I'm not a huge gamer, but I do enjoy the 10 or so on my Evo 4g. I'd have to say games on the Evo 4g are underwhelming. So I'm excited about the 3d having the chops for some serious games. But now I'm afraid that the qualcomm processor means it simply won't get the cool games with so many developers committed to Tegra 2. And some of these Tegra 2 games look pretty sweet.
With the rumor of a Tegra 2 device on Sprint, I question if it would be worth waiting for. What do y'all thing? Will qualcomm get the gaming love from developers? Will these cool Tegra games be ported to other capable dual core devices?
Fragmentation...
I was just thinking about this earlier. WTF is nvidia thinking?
THAT is *actual* fragmentation that everyone is talking about. That's not a difference of a simple version number that can be upgraded....things for download in the market that WILL NOT WORK on 90% of all phones? That's terrible. That's selfish. That will. not. help.
Even if they own 90% of the market its still wrong. LEss obvious, but wrong just the same. I hope nvidia fails and goes out of business for that maneuver. There is nothing keeping the game from running on non tegra² GPU's....sure, it probably won't run great....that's fine....but to have it look for a vendorID string and say 'sorry' just cuz you bought the wrong brand? That's insulting. Go ahead, tear the android market in 2 pieces.
...I think they'll fail on that front. What scumbags. Take something that is a legitmate but fringe concern (fragmentation) and turn it into a legitmate and very very real (market leading?) issue.
I'm not a gamer, but, it will suck that there are games I can't play--at any performance level--cuz I'm not wearing the right brand sneakers...or whatever.
fnck nvidia. That's all marketing and branding, lets keep it a strictly performance based game with standards as the rules...
chainfire3d is an app that is currently allowing tegra zone on most 1ghz devices. I'm not worried about the Evo 3D getting games because we can run anything the tegra 2 devices can AND there are 3D games coming very soon (3DS ports).
I feel this tatic of terga exclusive games will either fail by the end of the year or most high end phones on the next generation will have a terga processor including whatever HTCs next line will be. Personally I'm skeptical that this will take off. They do seem to have a developer following and if I was more of a gamer I couldn't see buying a non terga phone. SO maybe I'm wrong.
@daneurysm
Exactly! Forget Froyo vs. GB. This is the fragmentation that really sucks for consumers.
@sprinttouch666
chainfire3d looks pretty sweet. hadn't seen that before. I won't even bother loading that on my Evo cause I'm sure it'll choke with a beefy game. But it looks like we'll have to be quick to get root and S-off for the 3d to see what this app can do for it. But 3ds ports may be quite a job since they'd have to code out the DS part. Not sure how many game devs would bother for 2 or 3 3d capable phones in the whole market.
Check your specs fellas, qualcomm's processors blow the Tegra 2 out of the water... Tegra has dual 1ghz synced cores, Qualcomm has dual 1.2ghz asynchronous cores. Qualcomm's chips also feature the Adreno GPU which is faster and more efficient than the Tegra 2's minimalist GPU. Do some Googling to confirm then rest assured, the EVO 3D IS the droid you're looking for *waves hand like Obi Wan*
dimebagdan65 said:
Check your specs fellas, qualcomm's processors blow the Tegra 2 out of the water... Tegra has dual 1ghz synced cores, Qualcomm has dual 1.2ghz asynchronous cores. Qualcomm's chips also feature the Adreno GPU which is faster and more efficient than the Tegra 2's minimalist GPU. Do some Googling to confirm then rest assured, the EVO 3D IS the droid you're looking for *waves hand like Obi Wan*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the EVO 3d's chip outperforms these Tegra chips? I thought they were only releasing it for the Tegra chips because they might have been more powerful. Good to know if this isn't the case.
Now what is in the GS2 as I saw a benchmark video and it blew the Sensation out of the water? I know those benchmarks aren't everyhing but will the SG2 be that much more powerful then the Evo 3d?
I think tegra2 is possibly the slowest of the dual core bunch. BUT when games are coded specifically for that chip, will it matter that qualcomm's chip is better? What good is all that power if all the high quality games only run on tegra?
And you can't blame devs for coding to the most popular chip out for android. That chip is in phones, tabs, and more
Don't forget to blame the developers too, nvidia drives a dump truck full of money to their front porch and says "make this game work only on tegra2 devices".
dimebagdan65 said:
Check your specs fellas, qualcomm's processors blow the Tegra 2 out of the water... Tegra has dual 1ghz synced cores, Qualcomm has dual 1.2ghz asynchronous cores. Qualcomm's chips also feature the Adreno GPU which is faster and more efficient than the Tegra 2's minimalist GPU. Do some Googling to confirm then rest assured, the EVO 3D IS the droid you're looking for *waves hand like Obi Wan*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The EVO 3D isn't a droid.
fmedina2 said:
The EVO 3D isn't a droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a matter of interpretation. Anything running android is considered a 'droid' phone by most people. Then there are a few purists that believe only the phones made by motorola with Droid in there name can be considered 'droid'.
Whatever.
SteelH said:
That's a matter of interpretation. Anything running android is considered a 'droid' phone by most people. Then there are a few purists that believe only the phones made by motorola with Droid in there name can be considered 'droid'.
Whatever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
meh droid has always been a abbreviation for android, in all reality an android phone named droid is silly
I don't think I heard a single person refer to Android as "droid" prior to Verizon's marketing campaign...Droid is Verizon's branding, not Moto's or Samsung's or anyone else's...
I wouldn't be picky if it wasn't for the fact that "DROID" is so obvious on all Droid products. You definitely know if your phone is a droid and you definitely know if it isn't.
Benchmarks I've seen all put Exynos/Tegra/MSM8x60 slightly behind the new TI OMAP4. No matter what you choose it's going to be ridiculous. At the level these phones are at you cant go wrong.
Im pretty sure you'll still be able to play the games if you want to but they'll have a version special made for the tegra 2. It wouldn't surprise me if qualcomm started doing something similar but I'm not going to be buying a game that is nerfed even though my phone can handle it just fine.
Everybody's bringing up good (and funny) points, in the long run, once dual core processors are the norm, I think we'll see these "processor specific" games go the way of the dodo
dimebagdan65 said:
Everybody's bringing up good (and funny) points, in the long run, once dual core processors are the norm, I think we'll see these "processor specific" games go the way of the dodo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It reminds me of 3D graphics cards in the late 90's. You had to get a game made for your 3Dfx card to get 3D...or whatever mfgr....but that was the state of the software at the time, we lacked a common API, directX/directdraw was a mere infant at the time and Direct3D was only in beta testing...progress in progress.
Now they are trying to intentionally revert to this horrible horrible situation in the name of branding. They want to enslave you to a market for just their processors and/or supported games.....but it's not an API problem, its a vendorID string problem--and that's just effed up.
So in conclusion we need google to make something like directx???
riptide looks AWESOMEEEE to bad I will not be buying a tegra phone..... all of them suck (atrix has pentile display and blur, optimus 2x has lots of problems, droid x2 same as atrix)
scores87 said:
So in conclusion we need google to make something like directx???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the companies involved need to just not do this. There are already APIs to cover this.
Game developers are getting bribed, ahem, "courted" to support this chipset. The actual performance difference is likely negligible to keep it compatible all around. Even if it isn't negligible so long as it runs on everything android so be it--they just have a better graphics chip. Competition drives innovation.
But if they are just making it suck on non tegra2 devices by pulling the deviceID string, well, that's just disgusting.
scores87 said:
So in conclusion we need google to make something like directx???
riptide looks AWESOMEEEE to bad I will not be buying a tegra phone..... all of them suck (atrix has pentile display and blur, optimus 2x has lots of problems, droid x2 same as atrix)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's more a matter of the chip makers purposely trying to fragment, when programming it's always faster to write native code then use APIs (as talking directly to the hardware instead of going through android) but different chip makers are using different commands and incorporating their own customized features directly into the chips.
I would be surprised if google doesn't put their foot down and stop this sooner or later.
Which company do you think?
Samsung
Apple
Motorola
ZTE
LG
HTC
Kyocera
RIM
HP Palm
Sony
Pantech
Dell
Nokia
--------------
Also which chip manufacturing company will produce Tri-Core or Quad-Core First?
Qualcomm
Nvidia
Texas Instruments
Samsung
Apple
-------------
Submit your vote!
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Nvidia already has the Kal-El near complete.
Sent from my Fascinate with MIUI Gingerbread
What's the point of this thread?
Technically, all the "dual core" phones have been tri-core all along... there's a tiny third arm core hidden inside, controlling the radio!
And yeah, nVidia is more than likely going to be the first to get tri and quad core processors, they appear to have by far the most aggressive roadmap. They'll likely also appear first in tablets, before phones (at least that's the sane thing to do!), but which manufacturer will be first out the door is a total crapshoot.
FDro said:
What's the point of this thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd imagine the same "point" as the "Who's going to be the first company to use THz Processors" (except slightly less insane- still pointless, though).
FDro said:
What's the point of this thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no point... just another general bs thread by enyo
Who cares? When somebody gets a hold of them everybody will, and they will be the next standard thing in high end phones. It will probably be a while before anything like that will be worth it though, some people need to spend less time on battery-consuming chips and more time on making batteries last longer.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
End of this year. Most possibly a Google phone.
Sent from my ADR6350
While is sounds fun, I'm not sure people consider the power required. More processors requires more power, that's fairly obvious, and the performance benefit may not really be worthwhile. Android has a way to go in terms of performance compared to the iPhone.
I have to give the iPhone props in this dept. The interface is incredibly snappy in terms of responsiveness. Animations are simply smoother (think when pulling down the notification pane or flipping through app pages) (than 2.2 anyway) and there are fewer laggy moments, at least from what I've seen.
If the iPhone can do it on a 1GHz ARM processor, Android should be able to as well.
IMO there are lots of improvements that could be made with single (and I guess I have to include dual-core now) processors, and I would prefer to see them take that route first.
antigenx said:
While is sounds fun, I'm not sure people consider the power required. More processors requires more power, that's fairly obvious, and the performance benefit may not really be worthwhile. Android has a way to go in terms of performance compared to the iPhone.
I have to give the iPhone props in this dept. The interface is incredibly snappy in terms of responsiveness. Animations are simply smoother (think when pulling down the notification pane or flipping through app pages) (than 2.2 anyway) and there are fewer laggy moments, at least from what I've seen.
If the iPhone can do it on a 1GHz ARM processor, Android should be able to as well.
IMO there are lots of improvements that could be made with single (and I guess I have to include dual-core now) processors, and I would prefer to see them take that route first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they need to make batteries that are more efficient and last longer. If smartphones actually lasted more than a day of real usage of data and everything they would be much more appealing to the consumer market.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
antigenx said:
IMO there are lots of improvements that could be made with single (and I guess I have to include dual-core now) processors, and I would prefer to see them take that route first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's really a software issue (inc drivers).
Apple has a major advantage in this department. There's a grand total of four iPhones (5 if you count the CDMA iPhone 4), 4 iPod Touches, and 2 iPads, for a total of 11 devices, and only 7 of them (counting CDMA iPhone 4 as a separate device) are still supported in new OS updates.
Lets just take the Galaxy S to compare: How many variants of it are there? Every major carrier in the US has their own version, plus a second one on Verizon... that's five right there! And that's totally ignoring all the international variants (which usually stick much closer to the i9000)! And those are all from a single generation!
I kinda doubt Samsung has as many people working on hardware-software integration as Apple for their phones, and they quite stupidly spread them out far thinner, to countless different devices!
That is the reason that the iPhone's performance crushes Android's. The Android carriers put far less effort into the software side of all their devices, thinking that the specs are all that matters, totally forgetting that specs mean nothing if the software can't take advantage of them!
Compare the stock Fascinate software to MIUI/CM7/AOSP. The alternative ROMs have some reliability issues, but that's largely due to our devs having to figure out the hardware entirely on their own, with limited to no access to the actual documentation! And yet, Samsung's ROMs often have worse issues!
This is Android's fragmentation issue. Quantity (of models) over quality.
http://www.slashgear.com/acer-iconia-tab-a510-tipped-to-hit-europe-in-march-14213354/
Interesting if this story holds true... MWC should be interesting with all the tablet announcements.
Iconia Tab a510 for roughly the same price as Prime...
HTC Quattro/Vertigo/whatever it is called now.... rumored to be released in March
& iPad 2S or iPad 3 from Apple...
All due for March... or at least based on speculation/rumor/media report..
As far as the unreleased competition goes, I still think the Prime (when non-defunct) is rather superior to all of the hopeful alternatives. Even if they don't turn out to be, there is no excitement.
In my mind the prime will be superior because of the dock. Until someone creates another tablet that can out perform the TFP and has the same or better dock, the TFP will be better.
BUYMECAR said:
As far as the unreleased competition goes, I still think the Prime (when non-defunct) is rather superior to all of the hopeful alternatives. Even if they don't turn out to be, there is no excitement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doeboy711 said:
In my mind the prime will be superior because of the dock. Until someone creates another tablet that can out perform the TFP and has the same or better dock, the TFP will be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. That Acer, although has tegra3, is lower spec in other aspects like cam, etc... The only other tablet that's gonna make some noise or have hype around it ipad2s or ipad3. For some reason I have a feeling new Ipad going to keep same chipset as in ipad2 but have higher Res. Display and maybe 1Gb of Ram. Apple good for only upgrading chipset every other release. All other tablets won't really have no hype around them like the Prime did. Other than new Ipad of course.
Might as well wait though. Tegra4 will be out after summertime or fall. Specs on Tegra4/Wayne chipset is beast.
demandarin said:
I agree. That Acer, although has tegra3, is lower spec in other aspects like cam, etc... The only other tablet that's gonna make some noise or have hype around it ipad2s or ipad3. For some reason I have a feeling new Ipad going to keep same chipset as in ipad2 but have higher Res. Display and maybe 1Gb of Ram. Apple good for only upgrading chipset every other release. All other tablets won't really have no hype around them like the Prime did. Other than new Ipad of course.
Might as well wait though. Tegra4 will be out after summertime or fall. Specs on Tegra4/Wayne chipset is beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an alternative to those who do not want to deal with Prime's current issue (not that it's guaranteed that those upcoming tablets won't have any issue either)... Also, with the Iconia Tab.. excluding the "dock" feature & and Camera... everything else seems to be on par with Prime or better (higher display, slot for SIM card.. and etc).
Just a choice, or possible choice to those who are looking elsewhere...
Also, where are you getting this info on Tegra 4/Wayne being released after summer or fall? Based on few of my reading (such as Anandtech).. that 28nm quad-core from Nvidia seems destined for late this yr (at the earliest) or early next yr...
Based on Nvidia's history with Tegra 3 (which was due last summer/fall).. I'm going to guess that it won't be ready til next year...
shinzz said:
It's an alternative to those who do not want to deal with Prime's current issue (not that it's guaranteed that those upcoming tablets won't have any issue either)... Also, with the Iconia Tab.. excluding the "dock" feature & and Camera... everything else seems to be on par with Prime or better (higher display, slot for SIM card.. and etc).
Just a choice, or possible choice to those who are looking elsewhere...
Also, where are you getting this info on Tegra 4/Wayne being released after summer or fall? Based on few of my reading (such as Anandtech).. that 28nm quad-core from Nvidia seems destined for late this yr (at the earliest) or early next yr...
Based on Nvidia's history with Tegra 3 (which was due last summer/fall).. I'm going to guess that it won't be ready til next year...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah its like Q3/4 at the earliest for tegra4. With tegra3 being out before 2012 , there's a good chance we could see tegra4 device announce in fall and maybe a Christmas time release. I read some article talking about Nvidia getting things ready with it or ready to ramp up production of it. Ill try to find article n link it or post it.
Nothing wrong with alternatives. I'd go with Acer tegra3 over Lenovo one. Lenovo tablets never have any developer support and they are super slow in releasing firmware updates to latest releases. At least with Acer, they have support n have been recently releasing updates more often. I think their new A200 has ICS rolling out for it now. To the same version we have, 4.03. I thought that article you linked said new Acer has 1280x720 display. Primes is 1280x800. So they basically the same.
Did you hear about the latest news of how U.S. approved the acquisition of Motorola by Google? One more step and its a done deal. By this happening, Google will finally be in the hardware manufacturing sector now. Who knows what ingenious tablet they might concoct then. A Nexus tablet created and manufactured by Google themselves, since they will own Motorola, is seeming more n more like reality.
demandarin said:
Yeah its like Q3/4 at the earliest for tegra4. With tegra3 being out before 2012 , there's a good chance we could see tegra4 device announce in fall and maybe a Christmas time release. I read some article talking about Nvidia getting things ready with it or ready to ramp up production of it. Ill try to find article n link it or post it.
Nothing wrong with alternatives. I'd go with Acer tegra3 over Lenovo one. Lenovo tablets never have any developer support and they are super slow in releasing firmware updates to latest releases. At least with Acer, they have support n have been recently releasing updates more often. I think their new A200 has ICS rolling out for it now. To the same version we have, 4.03. I thought that article you linked said new Acer has 1280x720 display. Primes is 1280x800. So they basically the same.
Did you hear about the latest news of how U.S. approved the acquisition of Motorola by Google? One more step and its a done deal. By this happening, Google will finally be in the hardware manufacturing sector now. Who knows what ingenious tablet they might concoct then. A Nexus tablet created and manufactured by Google themselves, since they will own Motorola, is seeming more n more like reality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That article doesn't mention anything about resolution.. but from earlier reports & at CES.. it had 1920x1200. It does have 10.1 in display like Prime though.
Google's acquisition of Motorola doesn't interest me much. Not only is Google new & inexperienced in hardware division but you'll see some serious displeasure from other OEM (such as Samsung) if they were to "favor" Motorola... & create Google phone/tablets.
Granted I have my doubts on Win 8 (even as win dev.), if Google were to favor Motorola over other OEM, that'll certainly fuel & help OEMs switch their focus to Win 8 (heck, majority of them are paying MS already anyways for all the android devices they sell... they might as well just make the full switch & support Win 8 over Android instead).
demandarin said:
The only other tablet that's gonna make some noise or have hype around it ipad2s or ipad3. For some reason I have a feeling new Ipad going to keep same chipset as in ipad2 but have higher Res. Display and maybe 1Gb of Ram. Apple good for only upgrading chipset every other release. All other tablets won't really have no hype around them like the Prime did. Other than new Ipad of course.
Might as well wait though. Tegra4 will be out after summertime or fall. Specs on Tegra4/Wayne chipset is beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought that the ipad3 was going towards A6 which is equivalent to the quad core? Or was that the iphone5?
junrider said:
I thought that the ipad3 was going towards A6 which is equivalent to the quad core? Or was that the iphone5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't know anything about Apple's next tablet. Everything up to this point has been RUMORS and speculation. The only "concrete" rumor that I have seem so far is the leaked picture of iOS being ready for quad-core. Btw, A6 is quad-core that is on 28nm (Tegra 3 is 40nm). Although, according to this link: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/08...e+(MacRumors+iPhone+Blog:+iOS+News+and+Rumors)
it could be dual-core as well. Either way, everything about Apple's next-gen products are nothing but rumors until their press event.
We'll find more about Apple's next-gen tablet in March.
I refuse to buy any Android phone other than a Nexus. I had the Nexus One, Nexus S, and imported the Galaxy Nexus. My experience with the Prime has reaffirmed my decision to go Nexus only. My plan is to stick it out with the Prime for a while until Google hopefully decides to release a Nexus tablet. If that doesn't happen, I'll have a lot of thinking to do re: my next tablet. These companies just can't be trusted - they just seem to churn out as many Android devices as they can and don't care about the quality of their products. At least Google stands behind the Nexus devices.
wow, if you thought asus was bad at making hardware, wait until you get a load of acer. out of the frying pan and into the fire...
nyijedi said:
I refuse to buy any Android phone other than a Nexus. I had the Nexus One, Nexus S, and imported the Galaxy Nexus. My experience with the Prime has reaffirmed my decision to go Nexus only. My plan is to stick it out with the Prime for a while until Google hopefully decides to release a Nexus tablet. If that doesn't happen, I'll have a lot of thinking to do re: my next tablet. These companies just can't be trusted - they just seem to churn out as many Android devices as they can and don't care about the quality of their products. At least Google stands behind the Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nexus had its own hefty shares of issues also. no device is perfect or issue free. The latest nexus had tons of issues itself. no device is perfect. not even apple Ipad or iphone.
demandarin said:
nexus had its own hefty shares of issues also. no device is perfect or issue free. The latest nexus had tons of issues itself. no device is perfect. not even apple Ipad or iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Must you play the fanboi at every turn? It quickly becomes tiresome.
Five percent (5%) is the industry standard failure rate for consumer electronics. Failure rate, conservatively estimated, is closer to 30%.
No device is perfect, however some are "good enough". And others, as we have seen, are not. Now let it drop lest the constant bickering derail this thread as it has so many others.
demandarin said:
nexus had its own hefty shares of issues also. no device is perfect or issue free. The latest nexus had tons of issues itself. no device is perfect. not even apple Ipad or iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The few issues on the Galaxy Nexus (actually, I can only think of one that affected users overseas due to certain cell phone frequencies), were quickly and effectively addressed with an update. That's more than can be said for the numerous Prime problems.
hmm, two things.
1. the galaxy nexus is a samsung device, not a google device. samsung designed the hardware, samsung manufactures it. google collaborated with them on the requirements and design trade-offs and then prioritized gnexus hardware for the first round of ICS support. it is unsurprising that the overall quality and occurrence of issues on the gnexus is on par with samsung's other phones, which is to say, very low. but the special thing about nexus devices is not the hardware, it's the software, with google pushing out updates directly.
2. if you are looking for a tf201+dock alternative then i would keep an eye on the upcoming Lenovo IdeaPad S2. it will be released in Q2/Q3, probably around the same time as asus' TF700T. lenovo has a MUCH better track record of manufacturing quality than either asus or acer and hopefully this will continue with the S2. as far as features go, the S2 is essentially a tf201+dock clone with some minor variation in specs. perhaps the biggest concern is that lenovo looks to be modifying their version of android much more than asus has, and this is rarely a good thing. one of the many tech blog articles about the S2 is here:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/8/26...b-s2-a-10-1-inch-dual-core-android-4-0-tablet
nyijedi said:
I refuse to buy any Android phone other than a Nexus. I had the Nexus One, Nexus S, and imported the Galaxy Nexus. My experience with the Prime has reaffirmed my decision to go Nexus only. My plan is to stick it out with the Prime for a while until Google hopefully decides to release a Nexus tablet. If that doesn't happen, I'll have a lot of thinking to do re: my next tablet. These companies just can't be trusted - they just seem to churn out as many Android devices as they can and don't care about the quality of their products. At least Google stands behind the Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the nexus has any better support. The difference is they are so open that the developer community can fix the software side of things which seems to be the biggest issue with Android for the most part. I am with you and only buy Nexus phones. I would buy a nexus tablet if it was available but hope that with an unlocked bootloader the Prime can be a close second eventually.
Even though we haven't heard a lot about it, the HTC Vertex (formerly Quattro) may be the next quad-core released. March-ish is the rumor. HTC's holding a press conference on the 27th at MWC to announced a bunch of devices. I had a Jetstream for a while and it was incredibly well built. Sense and all of its widgets were pretty cool in tablet form too.
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HTC to focus on quad-core tablet PCs and smartphones in 2012
Daniel Shen, Taipei; Steve Shen, DIGITIMES [Monday 21 November 2011]
HTC will focus on the production of quad-core tablet PCs and smartphones in the first half of 2012 competing with comparable devices to be released by rivals including Asustek Computer, Acer, Samsung Electronics and Lenovo, according to industry sources.
Competition for the quad-core chip segment among Qualcomm, Nvidia and Texas Instruments is heating up competition in the quad-core device sector, the sources noted.
While Asustek will spearhead the production of quad-core tablet PCs in December 2011, HTC will be a strong contender in the segment by releasing its first quad-core tablet, the HTC Quattro, in March 2012 at the earliest, the sources revealed.
The 10.1-inch Quattro will be powered a Nvidia Tegra 3 CPU and supports HTC Scribe, Beats audio, 3.5G/Wi-Fi, and HTC and Dropbox cloud services, according to smartphone blog pocketnow.com.
The pocketnow.com website also noted that the initial Nvidia quad-core lineups will also include the HTC Edge smartphone. The Edge will be also powered by an Nvidia 1.5GHz Tegra 3 CPU and come with a 4.7-inch display, 8-megapixel camera and 32GB memory, and supports HTC Sense 4.0 interface, HTC Watch, HTC Listen, HTC Read and HTC Play, stated a post on the pocketnow.com website.
HTC is also developing another quad-core smartphone, the HTC Zeta, which will be powered by a Qualcomm 2.5GHz CPU and equipped with a 4.5-inch display, 8-megapixel camera as well as Beats, HTC Sense 4.0 and complete cloud content, according to technology site engadget.
Editor's note: This article has been updated to properly attribute the information sources.
jaypm said:
hmm, two things.
1. the galaxy nexus is a samsung device, not a google device. samsung designed the hardware, samsung manufactures it. google collaborated with them on the requirements and design trade-offs and then prioritized gnexus hardware for the first round of ICS support. it is unsurprising that the overall quality and occurrence of issues on the gnexus is on par with samsung's other phones, which is to say, very low. but the special thing about nexus devices is not the hardware, it's the software, with google pushing out updates directly.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/8/26...b-s2-a-10-1-inch-dual-core-android-4-0-tablet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung does the actual manufacturing, but the phone is designed with input from Google. There's an official video from Google on Youtube that talks about this process.
More importantly -- and you touched on this issue -- the software and updates are done by Google, and they seem to do this very competently, unlike Asus (see their .13 update that screwed up a bunch of Primes, mine included).
shinzz said:
That article doesn't mention anything about resolution.. but from earlier reports & at CES.. it had 1920x1200. It does have 10.1 in display like Prime though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically the A5xx series has 1280x800 and the A7xx has 1920x1200. I was at CES and played with the A510 and it was a very nice and smooth device. Not as sleek looking as the Prime but it has a plastic back so it has a high chance of having better wifi, gps. Possibly not have any wifi+BT issue either (my acer a100 doesnt seem to have it). Also has micro usb/charger port in 1. So no need for proprietary Asus usb cable. I'm not sure what to call the charging connector though cause it looks like a micro usb but has a slight tab on the center. It's not MHL for sure. I forgot though if it had a full USB on the side. Need to check the rest of my pictures on my phone.
So for anyone not really into using a kb dock then this is a very competitive device against the Prime. As far as rear camera goes I'm not sure everyone uses it or at least I don't care for it as I have my phone camera thats easier to hold for taking pictures. So having one in the 1st place is just a plus. Posted some pics here.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1451699
Col.Kernel said:
Must you play the fanboi at every turn? It quickly becomes tiresome.
Five percent (5%) is the industry standard failure rate for consumer electronics. Failure rate, conservatively estimated, is closer to 30%.
No device is perfect, however some are "good enough". And others, as we have seen, are not. Now let it drop lest the constant bickering derail this thread as it has so many others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its the truth..lol wasn't even comparing it to prime. Justba fact of technology. he made it seem google nexus is flawless, which its not. so I made my point already I didn't even mention prime so stop assuming. makes an ass of u and me. Ass U me lol
For all things Tegra4.
Early reports from MWC confirmed first Tegra4 chips-Multicore 28nm A15 Cortex chips(I think it may have 8 cores) have been stamped in December and already in hands of OEM for testing and use. With all the hot competition going on now, Nvidia is speeding up the process to bring these to market ASAP. with chips like Qualcomm S4, apple new chip, and Samsung Exynos, Nvidia is coming with all guns blazing to stay ahead of everyone. A version of Tegra4 codename Grey will eventually be released with built in LTE radio. this came from the assimilation of Icera. ill even admit, with tegra3 not currently having an LTE or built in radio, it might be overlooked by some companies if they want to make a data connection model. not all companies make those tablets so Tegra3 will still have a very large footprint of tablet devices as already seen from what's been announced at MWC and before. at least 11 devices so far will use the tegra3 chip.
with the competition getting fierce Nvidia is looking to stand strong behind the Tegra brand. So be on the look out in this thread for latest Tegra4/Wayne/Grey info and specs.
www.extremetech.com/computing/120201-why-nvidia-will-rush-to-tegra-4-as-fast-as-it-can
I will update this OP with Tegra4 news and specs. can't wait to see how much more powerful this puppy is than what's currently out or coming out.
until OP is updated with more Tegra4 news, here is a very good read for all you tech heads. Huge breakthroughs are about to be reached in CPU scaling and mobile computing.
FUTURE OF CPU SCALING: EXPLORING OPTIONS ON THE CUTTING EDGE
www.extremetech.com/extreme/120353-the-future-of-cpu-scaling-exploring-options-on-the-cutting-edge
More info: around October 2012 release @ earliest for Wayne/second most powerful version
1)Confirmation first version of Tegra4 will be 28nm Quad core A15 Cortex CPU @ 1.5Ghz and will have a 24 Core high powered GPU
2)SECOND version of tegra4 will be alot more powerful than the first. It will have no less than a 8 core CPU and have between a 32-64 Core GPU which will be DirectX compliant and more high standards. Look at screenshots for details
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UPDATE 3/30/2012: Tegra4 will more than likely be Keplar based. All indications point to it.
Some details and facts on the matter:
-" Nvidia’s Tegra 4, codenamed Wayne, included assertions that Nvidia’s next-gen SoC will use a Kepler-derived graphics core. That’s probably true, but the implications are considerably wider than a simple boost to the chip’s graphics performance. Tegra 4, also known as T40, could very well be a fundamental game-changer for Nvidia and the most important Tegra product to date"
-Improved Game Performance:
" The GPU that powers Tegra 2 and Tegra 3 has a fixed number of pixel and vertex shaders and is much more closely related to GeForce 7-era products than the Unified Shader Architecture Nvidia debuted with the G80 (GeForce 8). When Nvidia describes T2 & 3 as “fully programmable,” it’s true — but it’s not at all the same as being DirectCompute/CUDA/OpenCL-compatible. Current Tegra products are capable of running complex shader programs, but not the general-purpose code that makes things like PhysX or GPGPU calculations possible"
Unifying of Shader Architecture
-" GPUs with a Unified Shader Architecture (all Nvidia products from G80 onwards) have two advantages over their fixed-function cousins. First, they’re more efficient. A fixed-function GPU’s performance can vary considerably from game to game depending on whether a title emphasizes pixel shading or model geometry; this is quite visible when comparing performance between Tegra 2/3 and the SGX 544. A Kepler-based GPU would be much more flexible, able to allocate its execution resources to process either workload. This can indirectly lead to decreased power usage — a wide array of more efficient stream processors doesn’t necessarily need to run at nearly as high a clockspeed as a fixed-function chip.
Second, and arguably more important, is their ability to handle functions that would normally be processed on the CPU. This is where we expect T40 to come into its own."
-" As a software SDK for physics calculation, Nvidia’s PhysX solution has been quite successful; it’s used in nearly 400 games across consoles and PCs"
Tegra4 Goes Beyond Gaming
-" Tegra 4 also gives Nvidia a fresh platform with which to bundle its Icera modem and DirectTouch products. Its Icera product family is a set of softmodems for LTE and WiFi, while DirectTouch is technology that “improves touch responsiveness by offloading some of the touch processing that is typically performed by touch controllers and touch modules onto the Nvidia Tegra 3 application processor [Companion Core]. The architecture also simplifies the implementation of touch based hardware and user interfaces, requiring less power while delivering more scalable performance.”
Speaking of the Companion Core, Tegra 4 will almost certainly include an enhanced version of the architecture. With Tegra 3, Nvidia chose to build an array of five Cortex-A9 cores — in Tegra 4, the company could opt to adopt the sort of hybrid strategy ARM introduced with big.LITTLE (Cortex-A15 cores for heavy lifting with a Cortex-A7 chip for low power) or use a hybrid A9/A15 arrangement"
-" A Kepler-based GPU will also likely improve Tegra 4′s video encode/decode capabilities as compared to Tegra 3. This is one area where the T2/T3 family is significantly more advanced than the GeForce 7-era hardware they resemble in other respects, but a GK104-derived chip could improve the situation further by either increasing power efficiency, supporting a wider variety of formats and standards, or providing an increased number of post-processing options"
-" Nvidia has always marketed CUDA as a capability that could exponentially increase performance, but the company’s efforts in this area have mostly been confined to scientific computing or high-end industrial applications" Opportunity for CUDA is in Tegra4
VERY IMPORTANT RIGHT HERE!
-" Nvidia can’t count on the Cortex-A15 as a differentiator, given that the likes of Samsung and Texas Instruments will have their own A15-based products out by the end of the year as well. Graphics are the logical area for Nvidia to emphasize; a mobile GPU based on Kepler would be far more advanced than anything currently offered by Imagination Technologies’ PowerVR, ARM’s Mali, or the aging Adreno core."
-" We expect the company will attempt to position Tegra 4 as a chip that can leverage its GPU in ways that are beyond its competition. If the hardware delivers and the software support is in place, it could give Nvidia a potent weapon against OMAP5, Exynos, and future Medfield products from Intel."
Source: Extreme Tech www.extremetech.com/computing/12433...could-revolutionize-smartphone-capabilities/2
updated OP with a great read on future of CPU technology, Scaling, etc.. for the tech heads who love this type of stuff.
2012 and the first half of 2013 are going to be interesting for Nvidia because their going to be battling some formidable competitors with Teg3. From the article the story was sourced from...
The silicon took some time to get back and the company is now starting to sample its OEM partners with the next generation parts which will be launched at the next years' CES and MWC. You can probably expect a repeat of the Tegra 3 launch - limited run of units through a single vendor (in case of Tegra 3, it was ASUS and Transformer Prime tablet), and mass availability in the second quarter of 2013.
MWC 2013 will also see the debut of Grey, a 28nm single-chip package which combines Cortex-A15 cores, the new GPU and the Icera 4G LTE baseband. Grey is a successor of T28, which is a dual-core Tegra 2 combined with an Icera 450 baseband chip. The Tegra+Icera debuted at the show in the form of ZTE Mimosa X smartphone.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/mwc-201...ra-4-to-oem-partners/15014.html#ixzz1njqVFXy0
demandarin said:
For all things Tegra4.
Early reports from MWC confirmed first Tegra4 chips-Multicore 28nm A15 Cortex chips(I think it may have 8 cores) have been stamped in December and already in hands of OEM for testing and use. With all the hot competition going on now, Nvidia is speeding up the process to bring these to market ASAP. with chips like Qualcomm S4, apple new chip, and Samsung Exynos, Nvidia is coming with all guns blazing to stay ahead of everyone. A version of Tegra4 codename Grey will eventually be released with built in LTE radio. this came from the assimilation of Icera. ill even admit, with tegra3 not currently having an LTE or built in radio, it might be overlooked by some companies if they want to make a data connection model. not all companies make those tablets so Tegra3 will still have a very large footprint of tablet devices as already seen from what's been announced at MWC and before. at least 11 devices so far will use the tegra3 chip.
with the competition getting fierce Nvidia is looking to stand strong behind the Tegra brand. So be on the look out in this thread for latest Tegra4/Wayne/Grey info and specs.
www.extremetech.com/computing/120201-why-nvidia-will-rush-to-tegra-4-as-fast-as-it-can
I will update this OP with Tegra4 news and specs. can't wait to see how much more powerful this puppy is than what's currently out or coming out.
until OP is updated with more Tegra4 news, here is a very good read for all you tech heads. Huge breakthroughs are about to be reached in CPU scaling and mobile computing.
FUTURE OF CPU SCALING: EXPLORING OPTIONS ON THE CUTTING EDGE
www.extremetech.com/extreme/120353-the-future-of-cpu-scaling-exploring-options-on-the-cutting-edge
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I'm actually surprised by the link. The author from Extremetech & VR-Zone both have.. or at least have pessimistic view toward Tegra...
For example, Extremetech is already pessimistic towards Tegra 3..
"Krait is a processing core that is unique to Qualcomm, and is designed to compete with Cortex-A15, not the older A9 used in Tegra 3. If this is indicative of what manufacturers can do with A15, OMAP5 and the revamped Exynos could also prove problematic for Nvidia’s Tegra 3"
Another quote from VR-Zone:
"unlike the roadmap which we have here, we've been told that there might be some delays for the T40 since NVIDIA has to attack Qualcomm Snapdragon, and if the company won't offer Tegra 4+Baseband - Qualcomm will get (most) of the design wins.
"
Wordlywisewiz said:
Yes it was but he posts a thread every hour about how cool and awesome nvidia/asus/prime/tegra3/Tegra4 and links to news sources I mean find something better to do man
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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Funny you would say that he should find something better to do
He's one of the only guys not whining and complaining like most people do in this forum... +1 from me and thx 4 the news.
demandarin said:
With all the hot competition going on now, Nvidia is speeding up the process to bring these to market ASAP.
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I find the stuff you post to be interesting and don't mind it at all. And posting about Nvidia in general in the forum of a device powered by their chip is cool too. What drives me crazy is your one-sided and selective characterizations of what you post. Based on the title of your thread and quote above, two months ago I could have posted "Exynos 5250 is here!" because it was in sampling even though mass production isn't until Q2. You'd have been all over me for misrepresenting the data and rightfully so. Based on what you posted, Nvidia's going to be going up against some impressive SoCs from Samsung, TI, Qualcomm, Intel, and Huawei for the entire year and part of next year with nothing but Teg3. That to me was the most interesting part of what you posted even though I had to dig it out myself. And don't forget they were months late with Teg3 so "speeding up the process" is relative.
BarryH_GEG said:
I find the stuff you post to be interesting and don't mind it at all. And posting about Nvidia in general in the forum of a device powered by their chip is cool too. What drives me crazy is your one-sided and selective characterizations of what you post. Based on the title of your thread and quote above, two months ago I could have posted "Exynos 5250 is here!" because it was in sampling even though mass production isn't until Q2. You'd have been all over me for misrepresenting the data and rightfully so. Based on what you posted, Nvidia's going to be going up against some impressive SoCs from Samsung, TI, Qualcomm, Intel, and Huawei for the entire year and part of next year with nothing but Teg3. That to me was the most interesting part of what you posted even though I had to dig it out myself. And don't forget they were months late with Teg3 so "speeding up the process" is relative.
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Very well worded that's what I was getting at his threads tend to be very fan boyish and always lean towards the prime being the best... Usually fan boyness happens in other fourms like you should post stuff like this in ipad fourms
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demandarin said:
I partially agree but with all the other b.s. threads that has nothing to do with Prime, this will fit right in. plus there's a good chance Asus will use this chip since Asus claims to want to be first at things now. plus its related to Nvidia/tegra3. so its relevant
I'd suggest telling same thing to all the other non prime threads.
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Great... they couldn't get it right with the Prime so now they can blunder through & fiddle with a Tegra 4. "First at things"for Asus is proving to be half baked.
BarryH_GEG said:
I find the stuff you post to be interesting and don't mind it at all. And posting about Nvidia in general in the forum of a device powered by their chip is cool too. What drives me crazy is your one-sided and selective characterizations of what you post. Based on the title of your thread and quote above, two months ago I could have posted "Exynos 5250 is here!" because it was in sampling even though mass production isn't until Q2. You'd have been all over me for misrepresenting the data and rightfully so. Based on what you posted, Nvidia's going to be going up against some impressive SoCs from Samsung, TI, Qualcomm, Intel, and Huawei for the entire year and part of next year with nothing but Teg3. That to me was the most interesting part of what you posted even though I had to dig it out myself. And don't forget they were months late with Teg3 so "speeding up the process" is relative.
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Agreed. Mostly about the blind, unsubstantiated support of teg3/prime and never considering anything could be better or outperform it. I like the guy but the level of fanboi is the highest I have ever seen. We all like to support put devices and tout them as the best, but it gets to a level of pure insanity at times...
You guys wouldn't believe what showed up at my door again today. lol...Let me just say that some C2's have bluetooth and wifi fixed. But wifi range is still garbage.
I don't care what anyone says, Asus International rocks! Welcome me back guys.
Did you buy another prime? Or did they send you another free tablet?
PM sent......
Op updated with more Tegra4 info and facts. First version will be 28nm Quad Core A15 cortex CPU @ 1.5Ghz and 24 core GPU. Along with confirmation of second version having 8 core CPU and 32-64 core GPU. Projected October 2012 release date. Now this is something to wait for.
Major update in the OP. Just scroll down to 3/30/2012 update.
TEGRA4 WILL LIKELY BE KEPLAR BASED! I'm keeping prime until this releases. No other chip announced to come out will come close to this kind of power, capabilities, and potential. Nvidia looking to revolutionize the industry again. Tegra4 will be the chip to be excited and anxious for.
To be honest each time Nvidia release a new chip it is overtaken shortly after... see samsung's new chip vis a vis tegra 3... so I disagree with your statement. also there is no point in increasing performance power if the software lacks proper support for it.
BuZzCoRe said:
To be honest each time Nvidia release a new chip it is overtaken shortly after... see samsung's new chip vis a vis tegra 3... so I disagree with your statement. also there is no point in increasing performance power if the software lacks proper support for it.
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here's the thing, Samsungs new chip is not out yet and won't be for at least a couple to few more months. So that'll mean Nvidia tegra3 held the title of most powerful Android chip for at least half the year or more. so that's not shortly overtaken. plus when these other chips come out, Tegra4 will be also. Tegra4 said to release q4/fall of this year. So nvidia will overtake those again.
show me a Android chip out right now considered and shown to be more powerful than Tegra3 then ill be quiet. Show me a release date on a product using any Android chip more powerful than tegra3. There is none shown to come within a month or two or even 3. Tegra3 will have then been dominant chip for half the year or more. Market is already about to be flooded with more tegra3 based tablets. So these other chipmakers are actually behind the curve. not Nvidia.
as far as no since in increasing performance power when no proper software support, that's not on Nvidia, that has been the story of Android as a whole its whole life. I've always said its better for software optimation vs. constant hardware spec war. Since all android manufacturers want to continue the spec wars, then Nvidia is making sure to bring the big guns. Android marketing is a different beast than apples. Android focuses more on hardware specs and features. It'll be on Google and developers to bring the software up to speed.
End of 2012 will be interesting, both the hardware news and software (W8).
Nice that it's coming faster hardware but what good does I makes when you don't can use it for any good. Is there any app that need more power then Tegra 3 provide? There isn't hardly any games out there that takes full advantage of all the hype around Tegra 3. All games that was said to come always being pushed forward in time.
Have always looked at the specifications and numbers on papper and like when there comes new hardware and stuff.. But for now I starting to feel that do we really need faster more powerful systems when we don't have any apps that can use it.
One thing were the extra power can come in handy is when browsing. But wtf we don't even have a good browser that give a stable and good experience.
And the main thing for tablets is just browsing.
Have had Galaxy Tab 7,Xoom, Galaxy Tab 10.1 and all this devices felt like beta products and i was fine with it because it was all new ground. And I thought a part of all problems was the hardware and that the software needed some time. It have now been a year and I now own a Prime that is the best device so far, But still it feels like parts missing when the software doesn't keep up to the hardware. Must be hard for hardware manufacturer when they make good components that need to run a beta software.
Android tablets are big phones trying to be a PC and it don't do it very well. If Google don't step up I think W8 will have a good chance to succeed.
The move to make ICS for phones and tablets wasn't a good move.. I think it would been better to have one phone OS and one Tablet OS. All development of apps just make the phone apps scale to bigger screen and it don't look good.. Would been better if the developer needed to make it look good and not just make it work.
Interesting time a heads, But I think that we need better software before hardware and that's why I'm pretty sure that my next tablet will run W8.
Looking forward to have a real file manager and Microsoft Office.
Went a little off topic now. But was what I had in mind and only a little make sense, The rest is just nonsens in Bad English.
A article that I agree to on what he is writing and thinking about android apps on tablets.. You can skip the parts that is about Ipad..
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401676,00.asp
Asus Prime & Tapatalk
Andreas527 said:
End of 2012 will be interesting, both the hardware news and software (W8).
Nice that it's coming faster hardware but what good does I makes when you don't can use it for any good. Is there any app that need more power then Tegra 3 provide? There isn't hardly any games out there that takes full advantage of all the hype around Tegra 3. All games that was said to come always being pushed forward in time.
Have always looked at the specifications and numbers on papper and like when there comes new hardware and stuff.. But for now I starting to feel that do we really need faster more powerful systems when we don't have any apps that can use it.
One thing were the extra power can come in handy is when browsing. But wtf we don't even have a good browser that give a stable and good experience.
And the main thing for tablets is just browsing.
Have had Galaxy Tab 7,Xoom, Galaxy Tab 10.1 and all this devices felt like beta products and i was fine with it because it was all new ground. And I thought a part of all problems was the hardware and that the software needed some time. It have now been a year and I now own a Prime that is the best device so far, But still it feels like parts missing when the software doesn't keep up to the hardware. Must be hard for hardware manufacturer when they make good components that need to run a beta software.
Android tablets are big phones trying to be a PC and it don't do it very well. If Google don't step up I think W8 will have a good chance to succeed.
The move to make ICS for phones and tablets wasn't a good move.. I think it would been better to have one phone OS and one Tablet OS. All development of apps just make the phone apps scale to bigger screen and it don't look good.. Would been better if the developer needed to make it look good and not just make it work.
Interesting time a heads, But I think that we need better software before hardware and that's why I'm pretty sure that my next tablet will run W8.
Looking forward to have a real file manager and Microsoft Office.
Went a little off topic now. But was what I had in mind and only a little make sense, The rest is just nonsens in Bad English.
A article that I agree to on what he is writing and thinking about android apps on tablets.. You can skip the parts that is about Ipad..
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401676,00.asp
Asus Prime & Tapatalk
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I agree completely. But since Android as a whole is stuck on throwing hardware specs around and being more powerful, we'll just roll with the punches then.
I've always said software is the key. Currently Im satisfied with android experience. I've already had the first Ipad for 2yrs. and experienced IOS. IMO Android is alot better and more productive. So i will be getting a tegra4 tablet once it does come. to me, only thing worth waiting for.
BuZzCoRe said:
To be honest each time Nvidia release a new chip it is overtaken shortly after... see samsung's new chip vis a vis tegra 3... so I disagree with your statement. also there is no point in increasing performance power if the software lacks proper support for it.
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Mobile SOC are one of the fastest moving industries in the tech world. A 4-6 month lead on release is HUGE because that is half the product cycle. I think Nvidia is doing a great job personally, but for them to get more design wins they have to be "in" the inner circle. Part of business is having a compelling product that is highly profitable and the other part is strictly relationship based.
This is the reason that my store in Virginia is slowly but surely taking off. We have a product that is better quality, 50% cheaper and have an industry leading return policy with a showroom that is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above what any competitors have to offer. With all that being said my employees are better trained and more knowledgeable.
BUT.... my competitors are still thriving.. Why? Because they have been the "big boys" on the block for the last 45 years and we have been here about 5..
Will our sales numbers over take theirs? Without a doubt, but it will take a while to "win" people over and establish our relationship with the community.
Assuming Intel or AMD doesnt get too serious about SOCs I think Nvidia will be a world leader, but it will take a bit to gain ground.
I for one think their 4 plus 1 architecture is brilliant. I would have liked to see a better GPU, but that will come. Fact of the matter is Tegra 3 is small, cheap, profitable, quick and drains not too much power for what it is capable of. THey just need to get their LTE chipset in line as that cost them a TON of business.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Yep I have to agree about all this power & yet we lack on the software end of it.I may be looking at a tablet that Asus has with i think it's an I-5 or a I-7 processor in it.Yes it is a windows tablet & battery life isn't that good but the power & software are good.So if these Win 8 tablets or the new Tegra 4 isn't up to par then it's on to a windows tablet.
Of course this could be read as just a touch of FUD and sour grapes while Intel jump on the bandwagon driven by ARM, but the guy may have a point:
But Bell was scathing of existing implementations, which he partly put down to software issues with Android itself. “Android doesn’t make as effective use of multi-core as it could,” he said.
“In some of the use cases we’ve seen, [the] second core is detrimental because of scheduling.” Having looked at the multi-core options on the market, he said, the performance didn’t justify “the size and cost of putting in that part".
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Full article at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/07/intel_bell_mobile_launch/
Seeing how Intel's current affair with the Android mobile market is a single-core (although with HT) Atom CPU, I'm sure they're ever so slightly biased
That said, he might be on to something. I'm pretty sure Google (and the handset makers) could do a lot more to increase the efficiency and usage of multi-core CPUs. And, since Android is constantly in development, I'm sure they will.
I like intel, I own intel stock, if I were to build a server it would utilize intel parts. But this explaination is imo BS. Why include HT if it were so?
android can improve (and I wish google would stop tracking every program we ever use) but so can mobile x86. For my portfolio's sake I hope it does lol
>“Android doesn’t make as effective use of multi-core as it could,” he said.
It's a tempest in a teapot. Android is still mostly on phones--tablet-specific apps are few--so CPU performance isn't a big deal. You can see it in the usual X-vs-Y comparisons. Most of them use synthetic benchmarks rather than actual apps or games. We geeks get excited about which is the fastest phone, but it's irrelevant. The gating factor is perf-driven apps, of which there are few on phones.
This is no different to Nokia CEO Stephen Elop saying that multi-core is a waste of battery on a mobile phone, when his company has staked it's future on a mobile OS that doesn't currently support multi-core processors.
If they can't play "me too", just slag off those that can.
FUD pure and simple!
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
The guy's a chode. Intel can't into multicore so he's buttangery.
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I remember when the first dual core phones came out, there were naysayers saying exactly the same thing, android doesnt fully support it yet, its a waste of money and resources, yadda yadda yadda... Now android 4 DOES support multi core and support is going to get even better in further updates. Its like with windows 10 years ago saying that DVD or Blueray support was useless because most people only had CD drives.... well look where the tech is now nearly everyone has a DVD drive and half have a Blueray drive.
However lets have another look at hyperthreading.... came out about the same time as dual core CPUs and unfortunately more devices went withdual core instead of HT. now, several years later, we are seeing support for both dual cores and HT on the same chip.
Making my point: Saying Dual Core android devices are useless is shortsighted. Thats the direction the tech is headed, i love that extra power boost when i play things like Nova 3, and yes scheduler tweaking and other problems are still there but it doesnt mean the tech is useless, its just new, and like all new tech it still needs a chance to grow.