Hello to everyone!
Maybe it's a stupid, noob question, but I googled for this without success.
And even a search in these forums was not helping, so... let's start!
It's saturday morning here and I start my weekend in one of the most disappointing ways...
Some minutes ago, my Galaxy Note showed a red icon in the status bar. I checked it, and it was Zoner antivirus. Hooray!
The malware that it found was exploit.AndroidOS.Lootor.A, and I don't know what it is, but it really sounds bad.
The disappointment went worse when I discovered that the malware (according to this antivirus) was in the latest Superuser update. Something I'm not going to uninstall without thinking twice.
What should I do? I think I'm going to follow my elephant-phone's suggestion and uninstall the update, since it's telling me that I can use "the original version" (at least, in Italian the message I see means literally that).
If you tell me -as I think- that it is just a false positive, I'll be happy to reinstall any update, but anyway I am asking for the opinion of more experienced users.
Thanks in advance!
PS: while I was writing here, there were some evolutions in this problem.
I followed the instructions and uninstalled some update (or at least the phone told me so).
Now it seems that Superuser should be uninstalled because it has inside
exploit.AndroidOS.GingerBreak.A
HELP!
I'm not going to uninstall superuser (I think I couldn't anyway), but I am worrying now!
PPS: ok googling exploit.AndroidOS.Gingerbreak.A I found that it is a false positive, so I assume that also exploit.AndroidOS.Lootor.A is safe... but I still would like some confirmations, I am quite new to Android and this is not the way I want to learn lol.
Virus scanners on android truly are pointless. They will pick up anything that changes the root permissions llike Super user or the root exploit. As long as your not using apks from iffy sites like 4shared or something you will be fine.
So how can we solve that?... I found a couple of apks on APPLANET that lead to a GAME CASINO on real market... Strange but that´s look like a virus to me...
Thank´s in advance.. Cem..
Don't use applanet unless your begging for a virus or to have your phone make calls to long distance numbers and send texts to paid account. Also no one on XDA will help you with any black market app markets.
zelendel said:
Virus scanners on android truly are pointless. They will pick up anything that changes the root permissions llike Super user or the root exploit. As long as your not using apks from iffy sites like 4shared or something you will be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not expert enough yet to discuss your point, it just seemed weird to me since it is the very first problem I had with an android anti-malware software. I've run Superuser for something like two months without any warning...
Anyway it's solved now, even if not in the best way. Something messed up in my beloved phone when I rebooted it one moment after my last post... I had to re-synchronize all my accounts and to reinstall most of my apps, it seemed that my phone lost all app data.
Now it's ok (luckily, I've learned enough 'til now to bring it slowly back to normal) but the procedure was painful.
Great lesson here: wether you consider antimalware useful or not, don't rely on it more than on good ol' common sense!
PS: anyway, why are they pointless? Aren't they able to find possible problems? I've recently learned that "possible" problems aren't necessarily problems, but it seems strange to hear that they are useless... just an explanation please.
Always good to have a virus scanner on you're android mobile. Even i've you only downloading wrom the market it can be infected (Very small change). Nothing is secure in this world. Better to have protection one time to much then to have it to late. How more popular android is going to be, how more change you can have for infections. Even its still low. Lookout cost nothing and says nothing about my superuser and other rooting apps. I use it on my tablet and phone and it works great.
Recently read a test and no Antivirus App was able to find more 15% of the Viruses, plus they always slow my phone down.
Best solution for me is being cautious and checking permissions.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
i think it might be a good idea for all that root their devices to first understand the concept of a false posotive virus scan result
also it may be worth understanding that from anti virus software standpoint any alteration to system safety may be undesirable as its designed for the end user who doesnt even know what root is ..
increasingly android caters for 2 markets, the sort of people who come here and probably own about 30 devices including pcs tablets phones etc and love tech.
and the other market of people who own a pc with xp on it and one phone, only running android because thats what the salesman sold them - and not because they insisted on Android.
terminal 7 said:
i think it might be a good idea for all that root their devices to first understand the concept of a false posotive virus scan result
also it may be worth understanding that from anti virus software standpoint any alteration to system safety may be undesirable as its designed for the end user who doesnt even know what root is ..
increasingly android caters for 2 markets, the sort of people who come here and probably own about 30 devices including pcs tablets phones etc and love tech.
and the other market of people who own a pc with xp on it and one phone, only running android because thats what the salesman sold them - and not because they insisted on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I have to agree. Too many people get Android because its cool and then they root because they think its cool. They should understand what they are doing before they make a choice for the OS on their phone.
If you think running Linux is too much trouble to run and keep up on your computer why would you run it on your phone when it takes just as much to keep up?
terminal 7 said:
i think it might be a good idea for all that root their devices to first understand the concept of a false posotive virus scan result
also it may be worth understanding that from anti virus software standpoint any alteration to system safety may be undesirable as its designed for the end user who doesnt even know what root is ..
increasingly android caters for 2 markets, the sort of people who come here and probably own about 30 devices including pcs tablets phones etc and love tech.
and the other market of people who own a pc with xp on it and one phone, only running android because thats what the salesman sold them - and not because they insisted on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but you know, I had the naive hope that an antivirus for Android should check if an app is going to do a bad use of the permissions I give to it.
I.E. : I see a game that requires internet connection for multiplayer. It's ok, isn't it? In a perfect world, an antivirus should check if that game is going to connect to its multiplayer server or to a bad one... (it's just an example, I think that important brands aren't likely to lose their reputation that way)
Anyway, would you suggest me to give Avast a try? At least, I've seen that it has decent anti-theft features...
Max Morden said:
Yes, but you know, I had the naive hope that an antivirus for Android should check if an app is going to do a bad use of the permissions I give to it.
I.E. : I see a game that requires internet connection for multiplayer. It's ok, isn't it? In a perfect world, an antivirus should check if that game is going to connect to its multiplayer server or to a bad one... (it's just an example, I think that important brands aren't likely to lose their reputation that way)
Anyway, would you suggest me to give Avast a try? At least, I've seen that it has decent anti-theft features...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please receive this feedback as intended, respectfully and well meaning...
if your finding yourself having concerns when an anti virus flags up your rooted status and yet you still feel the need for an anti virus package i suggest you un-root and keep to a stock kernel - this way the anti virus software will inform you of any possible intrusion or system change.
if however you must have root i think you need to simply come to understand more about what the anti virus packages can do .. or actually what they are limited to doing - might i suggest spending some time learning about a popular linux distribution too as it will bring about a different frame of mind and then you will realize that the anti virus software flaging SuperUser as a virus is actually neither true or a false posotive .. its just working from a different set of perspectives to that of a confident root enabled computer user .
i hope this makes sense without coming across in the wrong way, i just really think people should learn from XDA and the devices they buy & come to XDA for help with .
Respect the info found at XDA -and its users, we all learn together here
.
No malware in superuser app. Proceed
sent from an HTC sensation on CM7 alpha #10
super user by chainsdd has been around for a long time. and was developed to make being rooted easier, a lot easier. it gives you control over all files on your device. the developer is very trusted. no worries
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium.
Thanks to every single user that chose to spend some time for this post.
I was kinda sure that Superuser had to be safe, but lack of experience made me fear that somehow I could have downloaded the wrong package, or something...
The weirdest thing, is that Superuser and antivirus have been there together for a while, so I wondered what on earth was happening.
Well, I've done a mistake and now I've learned something... it's ok.
terminal 7 said:
Please receive this feedback as intended, respectfully and well meaning...
if your finding yourself having concerns when an anti virus flags up your rooted status and yet you still feel the need for an anti virus package i suggest you un-root and keep to a stock kernel - this way the anti virus software will inform you of any possible intrusion or system change.
if however you must have root i think you need to simply come to understand more about what the anti virus packages can do .. or actually what they are limited to doing - might i suggest spending some time learning about a popular linux distribution too as it will bring about a different frame of mind and then you will realize that the anti virus software flaging SuperUser as a virus is actually neither true or a false posotive .. its just working from a different set of perspectives to that of a confident root enabled computer user .
i hope this makes sense without coming across in the wrong way, i just really think people should learn from XDA and the devices they buy & come to XDA for help with .
Respect the info found at XDA -and its users, we all learn together here
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was interesting.
First of all, I am not offended at all and I don't understand how I could.
Well I could probably live without root (except for a couple of useful apps)... but I'm not going to un-root it for now.
I am a sturdy guy and I want to learn everything (everything I am interested into, I mean) about this OS. Trying and trying again, at the cost of some little problems if needed.
As for Linux, almost all my PCs have also it inside (win7 mostly for games), and I have never had a problem worth this name when using it. Never had something like an antivirus there, just some common sense and everything was fine.
I think I should have the same attitude towards Android as many of you have suggested. And I am willing to get some more info about android's antivirus limitations. Just because I'm curious.
Can you suggest some particular post here in xda?
Thanks again!
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
Related
hey people,
i have been reading as of late that cyber crime has been increasingly growing on smartphones. should i install AV protection on my atrix is the question.
what is your opinion?
No.
As long you don't download warez apps - you are safe.
Something I've been wondering about is video files. I get a lot of video files from questionable places and I'm just wondering if these can ever contain anything malicious. Any thoughts?
I use Lookout, if you ever install third party or non-Market apps I would recommend it, although in 14+mo I have only found one app it flagged as malicious as I was trying to install it.
It's a great question to ask.
All my apps come from the Android Market, but I browse the net a lot.
Most of it is normal websites, but I still wonder if and when it will become "necessary". (then again there's always the emails)
Especially since Android is growing, and not all hackers are friendly...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Coming from CrackBerry site where everyone touts BB security and thinks there is someone on every street corner just waiting to hack your phone.. I've wondered this as well. However.. I've yet to read of anyone ever having their financials stolen due to cellphone hackery. Of course.. anything's possible.. but I think as long as your smart about WHAT your downloading and from where.. there shouldn't be any issues. Most of the Trojans out there come direct from China and aren't being plagued in our Market.. yet. At least Google's good about yanking apps that are deemed malicious when they do discover them.
^ The only one that really caught my attention was the wallpaper malware incident a while back.
I'm pretty good at trying to figure out why an app needs permissions, but the average user doesn't care which IMO is kinda scary...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
Android security problems are GREEEEEATLY exaggerated. When the media finds one malware app, they start spreading the news all over the internet.
Though, in 99% of cases such app isn't even on the Android market.
Well guess what? Same goes for iPhone - if you jailbreak and install an app outside the iTunes market that contains malware - you get screwed.
So yeah, the only way to get malware is by installing something from an untrustworthy source.
Additionally, you can use an app like Permissions Denied to monitor / retract permissions from untrustworthy apps.... or better yet - just don't install such apps in the first place. There are always alternatives for everything.
I figure with apple it's a lost cause to begin with. I guess it's just how they want it. they want to limit the people to what they deem is good enough for iOS
but google and AOSP on the other hand...
it's an open enviroment with the source code publicly available.
why won't google allow the devices to come pre rooted?
it's like buying a windows PC, but you can't access the windows folder, or linux with no root access (no sudo)
It makes me think because of possible security breaches and possible lawsuits? but if that's the case, it would have happened with linux and windows machines that allow root access...
just got me curious...
what's the method to the madness here?
Its up to carriers and OEMs. Google has no say in the matter. On Nexus phones it is damn easy to root phones and the Nexus One practically was prerooted.
Google doesnt stop anyone from selling phones prerooted, in fact, I would assume they encourage it.
I've been wondering this for a while now actually.
I think I'd be tempted to punch the poor guy who sold me a windows computer with no admin access..
Why do we (as a culture) not get outraged we aren't suppose to have full access to our phones?
Being totally honest here.. the "you could mess something up" logic doesn't work for me..Try telling any computer user who has had to use admin access for *ANYTHING* that..
Agreed. Google really is a company for their consumers. As stated above I'd assume they'd have pre-rooted phones. Though, I wouldn't think it'd be up to the carrier, more so the manufacturer. The carrier usually has to do with their bloatware. HTC made a statement in May saying their new phones after said statment will have unlocked bootloaders (they haven't kept that by the way). Rooting is easy though, its just cracking though bootloaders that allows custom roms, now that's the issue, especially Motorola devices.
Sent from my LG-P925 using xda premium
perhaps when it's rooted, people will 'customize' it too much, causing too much warranty replacements, and the manuf doesn't wanna deal with it?
I assume they void this risk by making it so that it's hard and pita to root it, and causing void of warranty, so they aren't responsible when the phone is bricked.
but it's not like if I destroy my windows on my computer, dell will come and fix it. (they do provide the tech support though I think? I don't know)
problem is, we're a sue happy country. so... I think that has alot to do with it.
razorseal said:
perhaps when it's rooted, people will 'customize' it too much, causing too much warranty replacements, and the manuf doesn't wanna deal with it?
I assume they void this risk by making it so that it's hard and pita to root it, and causing void of warranty, so they aren't responsible when the phone is bricked.
but it's not like if I destroy my windows on my computer, dell will come and fix it. (they do provide the tech support though I think? I don't know)
problem is, we're a sue happy country. so... I think that has alot to do with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
youve pretty much nailed it. almost.
99% of PHONE users do not mod and do not need/should have access to things that can prevent their phone from working anymore.
Imagine just being some dumb-ass, who 'pocket dials' deleting system apps, or the phone.apk... or is 'deleting the garbage' in download folder.. BUT its NOT the download folder... oops!
but you are no normal dumb-ass, you own a multi-million dollar company, and you cant receive or make time sensitive calls!!!?? because you accidentally deleted important stuff in your pocket... that IS a law suit.
remember this is a PHONE, not a computer.
tabets you have a case...
There should be a option when you first boot (or reflash) more or less like this:
Do you want to root your phone?
Root is used by advanced users and developers. If you don't know what this means, press 'No'.
Yes////// No
Sent using Mini CM7 Pro by Paul
.
Thread moved to Q&A due to it being a question. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
The biggest issue lies with the carriers and manufacturers, not Google. The carriers don't want you to use wireless tethering without paying them for it. The manufacturers don't want to replace phones broken by some idiot that doesn't know how to read.
I agree that most users don't know what root is and have no business modifying system files. However, it would be nice if all phones were as easy to root as Nexus phones. Just OEM unlock and be done with it. Unfortunately folks would catch on and tethering would skyrocket. The carriers can't have that.
There's also the issue of malicious apps. On a non-rooted phone, an app can only access so much data and its permissions are laid out in plain text upon install. On a rooted phone, an app without any permissions can access the same data. People are used to always accepting when Windows prompts them for admin access, and they'd do the same when prompted for Superuser access. I wish all of the root methods released, specifically the automated ones, required you to pass a test before rooting. There are too many people rooting their phones and then getting into a jam because they were too lazy to read.
I feel like the number of uneducated root users would drop if carriers and manufacturers would do a few things. If carriers made tethering plans affordable, people wouldn't root just for that reason. If manufacturers made bloatware uninstallable - not stuff like phone.apk or systemui.apk, but the apps that can be downloaded from the market or aren't necessary for the phone to run - then less people would root for that reason. You'd also get less obnoxious reviews on the market saying "omfg like I can't uninstall it you suck I'd give it zero stars if I could" that lower the rating on well developed apps.
Okay, end rant.
Supersonic Evo 4G | MIUI | Tapatalk
plainjane said:
There's also the issue of malicious apps. On a non-rooted phone, an app can only access so much data and its permissions are laid out in plain text upon install. On a rooted phone, an app without any permissions can access the same data. People are used to always accepting when Windows prompts them for admin access, and they'd do the same when prompted for Superuser access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, with a rooted phone you'll definitely have a less secure system if you don't know how to use it correctly. This point alone makes it not worth to give root access to normal users imo. I'm an app developer and I can say that I manage fine without a rooted phone and I have absolutely no need to root either, so far...
I can add that I don't live in US either so I don't know what kind of limitations you are bypassing there by rooting but that WiFi tethering is no problem for me without root access.
Hi Guys,
We know they exist, we get warnings in the news and on internet but I never met anyone who had a virus on his/her phone. And I live in China (Shanghai) with 30 Millions people. I'm starting to wonder if it's really important to have an anti-virus app. Of course wisdom tells me it just need one virus to make it worth. But with all the crazy phone people that are here, there must be someone who had a virus at some point. If so, what kind of virus? How many? And do you think an Anti-virus app is really necessary? Are you using one? Are you wearing condoms?(Whoa forget that last one, too many questions.)
I don't have one for the moment but maybe after reading your comments I'll get one. Will see.
I personally dont use one. Antivirus can (should) detect mallitious apps that might take advantages of user permissions and send sms, call someone or steal personal info without notice. Also almost all antivirus solutions offer anti theft protection (not so useful as it sounds).
My oppinion is that they are not worth the ram ussage if you are not installing free cracked apps from unofficial sources which is the most common place to install malicious app by mistake.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
No. I don't have any anti virus apps too. I feel it is unnecessary.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Using smartphones for 10 years.
never needed oe used an antivirus program (except one occassion, to briefly see its features)
So any of you know someone who had a virus?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Had once in symbian Commwarrior.A but never installed virus soft.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
I don't think I need one! I don't do online banking from my phone! Other than that It will slow down the phone unless you are not doing something dodgy.
I put an Anti Virus on my first Android phone as I fell for all of the scare tactic bull**** companies give you to download their products, but no, I don't on my S3 and never have. If you ask me and probably half of the XDA members, most Android "viruses" are non existant, and are mentioned to scare you into buying their products (most have a paid version that will "scan better"). As a matter of fact I've researched it quite a bit and only came across 2 legit Android viruses, both of which are from illegally downloading APK files from a non-google site.
So to answer your question, unless you download apps illegally, you're fine. Only Android security I spent money on is Cerberus Anti-Theft, it's really good should you get your phone stolen. The only downside is that you have to either have Data or WiFi on 24/7 so if it does get stolen you can access it from the control panel, but there is sadly no other way. Just make sure if you do spend your hard earned dollars on it that you get Titanium Backup or another equivalent so if you wipe your phone you don't lose it.
blackyz said:
Had once in symbian Commwarrior.A but never installed virus soft.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, symbian is not as popular as Android.
What was the virus doing? I mean was it calling people or sending sms to your contact?
no, other that stealing nothign they could do,
but my visa is prepaid and my birthdate is senstive info.
Oh my... of course I have an antivirus app for my phone. In fact I have 10. My phone needs virus protection inception. If I don't have at least 5 antivirus apps on my phone, I won't feel remotely safe.
I typed this by hand.
Techniques said:
I typed this by hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's ok I can read by eyes.
I've been using avast for about 3 months now, having picked up anything, all about preference tho if you feel safer with it then just get one
I've never had antivirus, it just uses way to much CPU, RAM and unnecessary storage on your device. My phones never played up or messed up. I think its just a money making scheme tbh. It slows your phone down and is definitely not needed
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
no, and i think it' not necessary an antivirus
if you know what you do you don't keep virus .... IMHO
Just be careful which apps you're about to downloa - don't install fart-soundsboards for example.
I use Lookout Mobile Security but mainly for the remote locate feature. It's free for up to two active phones in one account (account is tied to your e-mail).
Never had it report a virus though... don't think it hurts and never noticed it slowing down my phone, not even my previous HTC Desire
Eh, I ran Lookout when I first got an Android phone, but I don't think it ever accomplished everything other than introducing a slight delay after installing an application. I do run the JB-compatible version of LBE (which includes a ton of bloat - including an anti-virus), though, as I do like to block permissions, but I'd switch to PDroid in an instant if it were available for TouchWiz ROMs.
i think AV is useless on the phone.
had avast for sometime (got "scared"), other from a little battery drainage didn't feel slower or anything.
removed it to check battery stats without it and just figured it's useless...
as for anti-theft, you get apps that do just that, so no need for AV for anti-theft security.
Depends how confident you are as a smartphone user. If you check your app permissions (or if it is from a reputable enough dev), you shouldn't have any issues. As has been said above, cracked apps are the most dangerous, so be extra careful with those!
Also faik apps can't run hidden on android... so if you are an advanced user you should be able to check with a task manager what apps run in the background. If it isn't running in the background (and isn't your keyboard), then I doubt it can log your keystrokes etc.
So yeah, I don't use one. If phones get powerful enough such that the performance/battery impact is un-noticable, I'd probably install one (as I do on my PC - nod32), even though android is a more closed environment. If you're a noob who installs tons of cracked apps though (p.s. I'm not saying these attributes are necessarily linked lol), then of coure you should use one.
I use my (rooted and reflashed) SGS3 for work, for which it is great. Except our corporate IT folk have caught up, and now insist that I must install their security tools on my phone if I want to maintain mobile access to my corporate email, calendar etc etc. Fair enough ... not ideal, but I can appreciate their point of view.
Except their anti-virus tool (Junos Pulse) has decided that Mobile Odin Lite (which I downloaded from Chainfires post, here, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1347899) is infected with Android.Lotoor.c. A bit of Googling finds the following about "Lotoor":
Technical Information (Analysis)
Exploit:Unix/Lotoor is a detection for specially-crafted Android programs that attempt to exploit vulnerabilities in the Android operating system to gain root privilege.
Exploit:Unix/Lotoor is dropped and installed by TrojanSpy:AndroidOS/DroidDream.A. Once installed, the exploit is present as the following names:
rageagainstthecage
exploid
Allows root access
When run, Exploit:Unix/Lotoor allow a remote attacker to gain administrator privilege to the device running Android operation system.
Connects to a remote website
Exploit:Unix/Lotoor decrypts the name of a remote server provided by TrojanSpy:AndroidOS/DroidDream.A such as "184.105.245.17". The server address is used to send user identifiable data from the affected mobile device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given the nature of Mobile Odin, I can easily imagine this to be a false positive, but at the same time, I'd like a little reassurance - I don't particularly want a backdoor into my phone! Has anyone else seen or heard of this before? Or heard of any comment from Chainfire?
sixedup said:
I use my (rooted and reflashed) SGS3 for work, for which it is great. Except our corporate IT folk have caught up, and now insist that I must install their security tools on my phone if I want to maintain mobile access to my corporate email, calendar etc etc. Fair enough ... not ideal, but I can appreciate their point of view.
Except their anti-virus tool (Junos Pulse) has decided that Mobile Odin Lite (which I downloaded from Chainfires post, here, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1347899) is infected with Android.Lotoor.c. A bit of Googling finds the following about "Lotoor":
Given the nature of Mobile Odin, I can easily imagine this to be a false positive, but at the same time, I'd like a little reassurance - I don't particularly want a backdoor into my phone! Has anyone else seen or heard of this before? Or heard of any comment from Chainfire?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android Anti Virus Apps are known to detect bulsh*t from time to time. Also I highly doubt that a very well known developer like Chainfire would include something in his Apps that would do harm to your device.
Its a false positive. Rageagainstthecage is an older root exploit from the Captivate days. I remember it well. You're good to go. Not a problem.
b-eock said:
Its a false positive. Rageagainstthecage is an older root exploit from the Captivate days. I remember it well. You're good to go. Not a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great. That was what I thought (especially given it's Chainfire's creation too). Now I just have to work out how to persuade the corporate security people to be happy about it. That will be a whole different level of problem. I can see a lot of "working around" the corporate AV & security tools in my future
They won't be persuaded. Speaking as a corporate IT guy myself, theres no way I would allow it.
rootSU said:
They won't be persuaded. Speaking as a corporate IT guy myself, theres no way I would allow it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I know. It's the classic tension of the BYOD model. My phone, but their data and paranoia. And boy are those guys paranoid - the amount of protection required just so I can access my email and contacts via my mobile (which I used to carry around as printouts and a paper address book) is out of all proportion to their value. I guess they have to prepare processes for the absolute worst case, but honestly ...
I think there's always a step too far though. They can remotely wipe the device, so they should be happy with that.
Its just with root you can bypass exchange requirement for pin / password / pattern lock. Most IT dont like that
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
from a end users POV i mean?
why can't i get a new phone, install supersu from the play store, go to dev options or security, and enable root and point to supersu to handle it?
no security holes needed to get root and far less hassle for us end users to get to do what we want with our phones
is it just an attitude thing by google and the OEMs or a more technical thing?
well...what I can see is that the general public don't need or care for these functions. And they are quite good security locks. The ones who don't know what these functions are will not attempt to unlock the bootloader etc etc.
If for example these functions are visible in the settings menu and someone who just got their device scrolling the menus and finds this interesting button.
hmm..It says "root"? Beneath is another button says "unlock bootloader".
WOOW! Lets press the buttons and see what happens!!! :laugh::laugh:
And somehow the user bricked the device because the person didn't have any knowledge of what was going on.
There is probably more to it like warranty questions.
but it wouldn't be visible - like on this phone you had to know where to go to enable dev options so an average user wouldn't see it at all.
plus not all devices have locked bootloaders either. this is my 1st since the HTC desire.
I'll just quote "Kay" from Man In Black;
"A person is smart. People are dumb"
People in general are so soo stupid and they would tap something and three seconds later SystemUI would've been gone. Not likely of course, but you know that guy who's everywhere and manages to do some pretty stupid stuff with everything he touches. With that said, i think every single individual at XDA would love to have a pre-rooted device, or simply have (like you say) a toggle in the developer settings or something, but we all know how stupid people are, so i understand why it's not an option.
I would rather have a simple procedure like the Nexus' have where you have to know what you're about to do, and you can do it. If you do that, you probably know what root means, and you won't try to delete the system folder.
LordManhattan said:
I'll just quote "Kay" from Man In Black;
"A person is smart. People are dumb"
People in general are so soo stupid and they would tap something and three seconds later SystemUI would've been gone. Not likely of course, but you know that guy who's everywhere and manages to do some pretty stupid stuff with everything he touches. With that said, i think every single individual at XDA would love to have a pre-rooted device, or simply have (like you say) a toggle in the developer settings or something, but we all know how stupid people are, so i understand why it's not an option.
I would rather have a simple procedure like the Nexus' have where you have to know what you're about to do, and you can do it. If you do that, you probably know what root means, and you won't try to delete the system folder.
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Click to collapse
I have to agree with the OP though. Because even Linux itself comes with su. Windows comes with Administrator mode. So it shouldn't be a problem to provide root into the system even though majority of people doesn't know what are they doing. If something goes wrong, just recommend them to flash again (in Windows term, format and fresh install) even then google already provides contact backup so it shouldn't take a long time. Unlocking the bootloader on the other hand..
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Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
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LordManhattan said:
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
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Click to collapse
But if people really don't care, why Microsoft and Linux devs give such Administrator access to their 'Home edition' software? We bought the device and the ROM so why such restriction compared to a casual desktop solution? Following Google's logic to make it easy user friendly as it is, just put it in hidden place like developer option and boom problem solved. No casual user would ever know about tapping the Android build number continuously. Plus with a revised policy for warranty will be nice, for example, it will be void if you ever unlocked the bootloader of the device, because imho, that is the lifeline nowadays to guarantee that your device is still recoverable with some flashing. Casual super user activity shouldn't be closed completely i'd say (i.e Titanium backup anyone?).
Hmmm, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but isn't rooting on Android or Linux more risky if the user has no idea what they're doing?
Windows allows users to do some stuff but the worst thing you could do is mess it up so bad you have to do a clean install. There might not be a link from changing something in windows to completely screw up BIOS.
Now for rooting on Android, the average Joe hears about it, cool, let's press some buttons. Then some people mentions about kernels and radios, cool, let's flash some. Bam, phone gone. As some other have said, people will never cease to amaze you with their stupidity. So in Google and OEM's mind, it's best to make it as inaccessible as possible to avoid having some dumbass sue them for including something "potentially risky" in their devices.
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Yo_2T said:
Hmmm, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but isn't rooting on Android or Linux more risky if the user has no idea what they're doing?
Windows allows users to do some stuff but the worst thing you could do is mess it up so bad you have to do a clean install. There might not be a link from changing something in windows to completely screw up BIOS.
Now for rooting on Android, the average Joe hears about it, cool, let's press some buttons. Then some people mentions about kernels and radios, cool, let's flash some. Bam, phone gone. As some other have said, people will never cease to amaze you with their stupidity. So in Google and OEM's mind, it's best to make it as inaccessible as possible to avoid having some dumbass sue them for including something "potentially risky" in their devices.
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Click to collapse
Yes it is more risky but as i said in my post, warranty void IF the bootloader (ie the BIOS in desktop terms) is unlocked because even if you mess up the phone, there's always PC Companion fresh install if you still have locked bootloader, just like Windows fresh install, so therefore, Root/Admin priv should not be cut off completely from the system.
LordManhattan said:
Sure, but does your mom or sister use Linux, or even a terminal/CMD? No they do not. Linux is a "niche" OS, and the people that uses it knows what it is and what it does. Geeks. Being a Windows admin is not nearly as dangerous as having root in Android or Linux. You can destroy the whole system by deleting one file. And flashing and formatting is something few people do. There's a reason why I hate it when friends and family start messing around with their devices, because I know that I'll have to either take a look at the damn thing or reformat it next week.
People are morons when it comes to technology. WE are a special group of people that spend A LOT of time with these things, so it's natural that we want it all. Regular people on the other hand want to check Facebook and use Spotify. Throw the whole kitchen sink into the OS and people will get confused and get an iPhone, or simply stop using it for what it is or could be. Remember that we are the minority here. Android is a mainstream OS that is meant for regular people and should be simple to use, but advanced under the hood (so people like us can play with it).
If you take a closer look at KitKat, you'll notice that Google have made some tiny changes, like the arrow on the lock screen that tells you that if you drag the arrow up, you'll open Google Now. Also notice the camera icon on the lock screen. Tap it and it'll move a little - like a hint for people that you can slide it to open the camera. Google understands that people need guidance and not hidden shortcuts and more gestures. We may know about all the features and easter eggs, but that's because we're actively looking for them. People in general are not.
My point is, people don't care. WE, the geeks are the minority and not the main group of people OEM's are thinking about when they make devices. We, the geeks already have devices that are targeted at us and it's called "Nexus".
/rant
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maybe but the nexus is an extremely limited device and not something i'd ever consider without google making major changes.
i don't see how something like this would mess up the average user either. i mean if you have a hidden dev options menu you have to unhide, then you have to download supersu and then enable root in dev options.
if someone does all that then they know what they're getting into and must have read some guide to get there. no different to now really.
I think kit all depends on the people who set the first stone for these mobile operating systems. They obviously didn't think of them in the same sense as computer OS, so they just do things in certain ways. And I think from the way the market has evolved, Google hasn't found a reason to incorporate such features into Android because there's no real demand for it. You know how sometimes it doesn't take companies to do certain things, but they just don't do it. (like the freaking battery percentage on Android).
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