Related
The Evo already got it, and im sure the incredible is almost there. Whats wrong with the Eris? And what Hboot are those two devices running?
Nikolai2.1 said:
The Evo already got it, and im sure the incredible is almost there. Whats wrong with the Eris? And what Hboot are those two devices running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
uuuummm what r u talkin about ? im confused , the eris is already rooted ,atleast if u have 1.5 u can root it or the 2.1 ota i belie ve u can too
tazzpatriot said:
uuuummm what r u talkin about ? im confused , the eris is already rooted ,atleast if u have 1.5 u can root it or the 2.1 ota i belie ve u can too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it would be obvious that im talking about the leaked versions
it's just attention has been diverted that's all. if all the devs were working on rooting those leaks I have no doubt in my mind it would have already been, or very close to being rooted, but as it stands, most devs already have root on their phones so they arent as focused to rooting anymore, just providing more things already rooted phones. I'm sure there are some more devso ut there trying everyday to root it, but without as many, or as much work into it, it's going to be quite a while to get there.
I was looking into it myself, until my trackball stopped working and I got a replacement phone, so I guess I could be to blame as well for this.
Lemcott said:
it's just attention has been diverted that's all. if all the devs were working on rooting those leaks I have no doubt in my mind it would have already been, or very close to being rooted, but as it stands, most devs already have root on their phones so they arent as focused to rooting anymore, just providing more things already rooted phones. I'm sure there are some more devso ut there trying everyday to root it, but without as many, or as much work into it, it's going to be quite a while to get there.
I was looking into it myself, until my trackball stopped working and I got a replacement phone, so I guess I could be to blame as well for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
devs are def. working on the issue. problem is, it's a no paying job.
I dont get the whole point in calling Android open source software if they have to lock our phones so we cant do anything. if we screw it up thats our fault so i dont see the problem
cornbreadfarts said:
devs are def. working on the issue. problem is, it's a no paying job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I recognized that some are still working on it, I just said that attention has been diverted greatly. do you think releasing an ad blocker, various roms, overclocking, froyo, live wallpapers, aosp/jit support they were busy trying to root at the same time? of course not, you can only do so much at once, and attention to rooting has shifted greatly. have they forgot about it completely? hell no! they just put it on the backburners.
Nikolai2.1 said:
I dont get the whole point in calling Android open source software if they have to lock our phones so we cant do anything. if we screw it up thats our fault so i dont see the problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google and android being open source has nothing to do with it. it's the carriers who prefer to lock down the phones.
A to keep the general public out of things that could hurt. could you imagine any old lady picking up an android phone and overclocking and the SU app, and all the other tools were there? it'd either destroy her phone when she messes with it, or left alone entirely because she doesnt know what they do. eitherway? they become pointless to have on the phone.
B to keep users out of things that cost more money. did you know you have to actually pay verizon an extra addition on your bill to unlock tethering on the phones they allow tethering on? by having root, we can tether without them knowing on phones that don't usually have tethering and we can do it without paying for it. it's not exactly something they want going on, so they lock the phones down.
C safety. Having root access on our phone gives apps a lot more things to control, and with such, if anything malicious gets on our phone, it can do more damage on a root user then a locked down phone.
so take the nexus one for instance, if you bought that through google, not a wireless provider, it still has root on it for the first and last reasons I mentioned. to keep the general public out of things they don't need to be getting into/understand how to control. and with the safety lockdown, the average person who goes "oh what's this?" *click* on a malicious app doesnt get that chance.
it's not about keeping us out, it's about making the service providers happy, and keeping the general public safe.
google has put into android a very simple way to get root access for us all, it's the phone hardware (and their custom software additions) and the service providers that make it harder and harder to get into the system.
makes sense, but safe from what? its a phone... it wont kill you
buttttt how would you go about getting a pre rooted nexus one even if you dont have t mobile and just want the phone?
Nikolai2.1 said:
makes sense, but safe from what? its a phone... it wont kill you
buttttt how would you go about getting a pre rooted nexus one even if you dont have t mobile and just want the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No the phone wont hurt you, just your pocket when the average person, who knows zip about what they are doing with a rooted phone totally bricks the phone and has to buy a new one, at full retail price. Or perhaps they load up a app that causes major issues with the phone, causing it to lock up/fail. again hurting the pocket book by having to buy a new phone at retail price.
I'm not trying to be a **** here but I'm fairly certain that when any of us load anything onto the phone we're aware of the risks it could bring, I would hope you went into this with the same mentality.
that is what we are saying, anying who can make an account on XDA, actually, anyone who has even HEARD of xda is probably smart enough to not do any brick-inducing stupid moves.
I'm talking about the average person who doesnt know the difference between RAM and ROM here, it's locked down to protect them from their own dumb moves.
frankspin said:
I'm not trying to be a **** here but I'm fairly certain that when any of us load anything onto the phone we're aware of the risks it could bring, I would hope you went into this with the same mentality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats exactly what im trying to say. if we screw up our phones that our own fault so i dont see why we should worry about others who brick their phones and end up buying new ones. thats their fault and they can deal with it
(now because i said that if im ever able to root ill probably brick my phone trying) karma sucks...
but still.
Hello everyone,
Im an IT guy for the company i work for and my boss the exchange admin is looking at some software to secure android phones. (Rooted ones) He found this software called (air-watch). i cannot post the link in here becasue im too new lol. i can email it if google does not work. Can someone smarter them me take a look and see if this means the end for all of us with rooted phones in the company. Im not sure how rooting phones affects how they are seen from exchange but i love my Roms and wifi teather
software can be found at http://www.air-watch.com/platforms/android/index.html click on android on the top
anyone? help pls.... im worried now haha
dont worry about it
I'm familiar with the company and right now they don't have a way to detect rooted phones.
nice. so how does the software work? there is no good info on the website and you are the 1st person ive talked to that has herd of it
sgtagem said:
software can be found at http://www.air-watch.com/platforms/android/index.html click on android on the top
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a way for the company you are working for that supplied your android based phone to control the content and how it operates. It is basically security software. This will not effect your personal phone. Just your company supplied phone.
mistere372002 said:
Its a way for the company you are working for that supplied your android based phone to control the content and how it operates. It is basically security software. This will not effect your personal phone. Just your company supplied phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if my phone is rooted right now will this software prevent me from connecting to exchange or will it just force me to use things like a screen lock pin code? I dont mind locking my phone with a password like my old blackberry i just dont want to lose root rights one my phone. free wifi teather overclocking ect is sooo nice
From the sounds of it, you don't own your phone anyway.
I own the phone the company took my plan over to save me some cash. But use it for exchange email so... I will be affected. Thanks for the input everyone
Sent from my Evervolv Droid
AirWatch
The company I work for is getting AirWatch as well. I am also one of the admins, so I will be the one setting ups the system. I am interested to see how of if the root is detected on my EVO 3d.
I will post as our pilot goes on.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
BUMP
Any update on this? Air-watch does detect rooted phones, tested this out.
From their product page:
Define approved Android operating systems and models....
and
Detect Android devices that have been rooted or un-enrolled from the system.
If they decide to approve only stock ROM's, you're out of luck. Plus they have the ability to do a bunch of other stuff I wouldn't want my company doing on my personal phone like seeing what apps are installed, tracking via GPS, encrypting the SD card, and being able to remotely lock and wipe it. If I were you, I'd think about paying my own wireless bill and telling the company to stuff that product.
macellaio said:
From their product page:
Define approved Android operating systems and models....
and
Detect Android devices that have been rooted or un-enrolled from the system.
If they decide to approve only stock ROM's, you're out of luck. Plus they have the ability to do a bunch of other stuff I wouldn't want my company doing on my personal phone like seeing what apps are installed, tracking via GPS, encrypting the SD card, and being able to remotely lock and wipe it. If I were you, I'd think about paying my own wireless bill and telling the company to stuff that product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alot of companies are doing this and I have to agree with it. Company based info is too sensitive to be trusted to a rooted phone. Mainly with alot of people just installing apps without thinking about the permissions the apps use.
If you want to keep your phone where you have control then take the bill back over and let them issue you a company device.
zelendel said:
Alot of companies are doing this and I have to agree with it. Company based info is too sensitive to be trusted to a rooted phone. Mainly with alot of people just installing apps without thinking about the permissions the apps use.
If you want to keep your phone where you have control then take the bill back over and let them issue you a company device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes -- All the big companies are doing it... where the sticker comes in is if the device rooted, is the device more at risk than being normal stock rom? More of a policy question at this point.
What muddies the water even more is if manufacturers are allowing the boot loader to be unlocked, then where is the problem with having a rooted phone.
Need to confirm with AW, will have a call with them later next week to determine how they are checking if the device is 'compromised'.
amryan said:
Yes -- All the big companies are doing it... where the sticker comes in is if the device rooted, is the device more at risk than being normal stock rom? More of a policy question at this point.
What muddies the water even more is if manufacturers are allowing the boot loader to be unlocked, then where is the problem with having a rooted phone.
Need to confirm with AW, will have a call with them later next week to determine how they are checking if the device is 'compromised'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes a rooted phone is more at risk as it gives all apps the ability to have admin access. With a stock rom no one has admin rights to your phone.
zelendel said:
Yes a rooted phone is more at risk as it gives all apps the ability to have admin access. With a stock rom no one has admin rights to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to grant this access...is it really that much different when you install an app and give it those permissions?
In my eyes no... but there are better ways to protect the data from exfil....
amryan said:
You have to grant this access...is it really that much different when you install an app and give it those permissions?
In my eyes no... but there are better ways to protect the data from exfil....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK but really think about it for a min. It is not that hard to bypass it if a hacker wanted to. That is how the virus apps do it. All then do is wait for the command to pop up and then make the system think you granted it.
Any word on how they detect root and if it can be bypassed?
Airwatch is being deployed at my "friends" company and so far several people have been black-listed from having rooted phones. Supposedly one of them had Super User installed, but there was no prompt from Airwatch saying it wanted root permisions.
How is airwatch detecting that phones have been rooted?
Is is possible to hide the fact that a phone has been rooted? (What I need is a root kit for my rooted phone.)
Modified_Grays said:
Airwatch is being deployed at my "friends" company and so far several people have been black-listed from having rooted phones. Supposedly one of them had Super User installed, but there was no prompt from Airwatch saying it wanted root permisions.
How is airwatch detecting that phones have been rooted?
Is is possible to hide the fact that a phone has been rooted? (What I need is a root kit for my rooted phone.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's checking for certain files, su, superuser. unrooting might be the only option... you can set the agent to poll whenever you want, so it could check every 5 mins.
http://androidforums.com/droid-x-all-things-root/207397-good-enterprise.html
check that link out... same concept... kind of annoying... I would be interested in a VM solution for my evo 3d and just run airwatch from a separate instance (dont think this exists yet)
Hello to everyone!
Maybe it's a stupid, noob question, but I googled for this without success.
And even a search in these forums was not helping, so... let's start!
It's saturday morning here and I start my weekend in one of the most disappointing ways...
Some minutes ago, my Galaxy Note showed a red icon in the status bar. I checked it, and it was Zoner antivirus. Hooray!
The malware that it found was exploit.AndroidOS.Lootor.A, and I don't know what it is, but it really sounds bad.
The disappointment went worse when I discovered that the malware (according to this antivirus) was in the latest Superuser update. Something I'm not going to uninstall without thinking twice.
What should I do? I think I'm going to follow my elephant-phone's suggestion and uninstall the update, since it's telling me that I can use "the original version" (at least, in Italian the message I see means literally that).
If you tell me -as I think- that it is just a false positive, I'll be happy to reinstall any update, but anyway I am asking for the opinion of more experienced users.
Thanks in advance!
PS: while I was writing here, there were some evolutions in this problem.
I followed the instructions and uninstalled some update (or at least the phone told me so).
Now it seems that Superuser should be uninstalled because it has inside
exploit.AndroidOS.GingerBreak.A
HELP!
I'm not going to uninstall superuser (I think I couldn't anyway), but I am worrying now!
PPS: ok googling exploit.AndroidOS.Gingerbreak.A I found that it is a false positive, so I assume that also exploit.AndroidOS.Lootor.A is safe... but I still would like some confirmations, I am quite new to Android and this is not the way I want to learn lol.
Virus scanners on android truly are pointless. They will pick up anything that changes the root permissions llike Super user or the root exploit. As long as your not using apks from iffy sites like 4shared or something you will be fine.
So how can we solve that?... I found a couple of apks on APPLANET that lead to a GAME CASINO on real market... Strange but that´s look like a virus to me...
Thank´s in advance.. Cem..
Don't use applanet unless your begging for a virus or to have your phone make calls to long distance numbers and send texts to paid account. Also no one on XDA will help you with any black market app markets.
zelendel said:
Virus scanners on android truly are pointless. They will pick up anything that changes the root permissions llike Super user or the root exploit. As long as your not using apks from iffy sites like 4shared or something you will be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not expert enough yet to discuss your point, it just seemed weird to me since it is the very first problem I had with an android anti-malware software. I've run Superuser for something like two months without any warning...
Anyway it's solved now, even if not in the best way. Something messed up in my beloved phone when I rebooted it one moment after my last post... I had to re-synchronize all my accounts and to reinstall most of my apps, it seemed that my phone lost all app data.
Now it's ok (luckily, I've learned enough 'til now to bring it slowly back to normal) but the procedure was painful.
Great lesson here: wether you consider antimalware useful or not, don't rely on it more than on good ol' common sense!
PS: anyway, why are they pointless? Aren't they able to find possible problems? I've recently learned that "possible" problems aren't necessarily problems, but it seems strange to hear that they are useless... just an explanation please.
Always good to have a virus scanner on you're android mobile. Even i've you only downloading wrom the market it can be infected (Very small change). Nothing is secure in this world. Better to have protection one time to much then to have it to late. How more popular android is going to be, how more change you can have for infections. Even its still low. Lookout cost nothing and says nothing about my superuser and other rooting apps. I use it on my tablet and phone and it works great.
Recently read a test and no Antivirus App was able to find more 15% of the Viruses, plus they always slow my phone down.
Best solution for me is being cautious and checking permissions.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
i think it might be a good idea for all that root their devices to first understand the concept of a false posotive virus scan result
also it may be worth understanding that from anti virus software standpoint any alteration to system safety may be undesirable as its designed for the end user who doesnt even know what root is ..
increasingly android caters for 2 markets, the sort of people who come here and probably own about 30 devices including pcs tablets phones etc and love tech.
and the other market of people who own a pc with xp on it and one phone, only running android because thats what the salesman sold them - and not because they insisted on Android.
terminal 7 said:
i think it might be a good idea for all that root their devices to first understand the concept of a false posotive virus scan result
also it may be worth understanding that from anti virus software standpoint any alteration to system safety may be undesirable as its designed for the end user who doesnt even know what root is ..
increasingly android caters for 2 markets, the sort of people who come here and probably own about 30 devices including pcs tablets phones etc and love tech.
and the other market of people who own a pc with xp on it and one phone, only running android because thats what the salesman sold them - and not because they insisted on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I have to agree. Too many people get Android because its cool and then they root because they think its cool. They should understand what they are doing before they make a choice for the OS on their phone.
If you think running Linux is too much trouble to run and keep up on your computer why would you run it on your phone when it takes just as much to keep up?
terminal 7 said:
i think it might be a good idea for all that root their devices to first understand the concept of a false posotive virus scan result
also it may be worth understanding that from anti virus software standpoint any alteration to system safety may be undesirable as its designed for the end user who doesnt even know what root is ..
increasingly android caters for 2 markets, the sort of people who come here and probably own about 30 devices including pcs tablets phones etc and love tech.
and the other market of people who own a pc with xp on it and one phone, only running android because thats what the salesman sold them - and not because they insisted on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but you know, I had the naive hope that an antivirus for Android should check if an app is going to do a bad use of the permissions I give to it.
I.E. : I see a game that requires internet connection for multiplayer. It's ok, isn't it? In a perfect world, an antivirus should check if that game is going to connect to its multiplayer server or to a bad one... (it's just an example, I think that important brands aren't likely to lose their reputation that way)
Anyway, would you suggest me to give Avast a try? At least, I've seen that it has decent anti-theft features...
Max Morden said:
Yes, but you know, I had the naive hope that an antivirus for Android should check if an app is going to do a bad use of the permissions I give to it.
I.E. : I see a game that requires internet connection for multiplayer. It's ok, isn't it? In a perfect world, an antivirus should check if that game is going to connect to its multiplayer server or to a bad one... (it's just an example, I think that important brands aren't likely to lose their reputation that way)
Anyway, would you suggest me to give Avast a try? At least, I've seen that it has decent anti-theft features...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please receive this feedback as intended, respectfully and well meaning...
if your finding yourself having concerns when an anti virus flags up your rooted status and yet you still feel the need for an anti virus package i suggest you un-root and keep to a stock kernel - this way the anti virus software will inform you of any possible intrusion or system change.
if however you must have root i think you need to simply come to understand more about what the anti virus packages can do .. or actually what they are limited to doing - might i suggest spending some time learning about a popular linux distribution too as it will bring about a different frame of mind and then you will realize that the anti virus software flaging SuperUser as a virus is actually neither true or a false posotive .. its just working from a different set of perspectives to that of a confident root enabled computer user .
i hope this makes sense without coming across in the wrong way, i just really think people should learn from XDA and the devices they buy & come to XDA for help with .
Respect the info found at XDA -and its users, we all learn together here
.
No malware in superuser app. Proceed
sent from an HTC sensation on CM7 alpha #10
super user by chainsdd has been around for a long time. and was developed to make being rooted easier, a lot easier. it gives you control over all files on your device. the developer is very trusted. no worries
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium.
Thanks to every single user that chose to spend some time for this post.
I was kinda sure that Superuser had to be safe, but lack of experience made me fear that somehow I could have downloaded the wrong package, or something...
The weirdest thing, is that Superuser and antivirus have been there together for a while, so I wondered what on earth was happening.
Well, I've done a mistake and now I've learned something... it's ok.
terminal 7 said:
Please receive this feedback as intended, respectfully and well meaning...
if your finding yourself having concerns when an anti virus flags up your rooted status and yet you still feel the need for an anti virus package i suggest you un-root and keep to a stock kernel - this way the anti virus software will inform you of any possible intrusion or system change.
if however you must have root i think you need to simply come to understand more about what the anti virus packages can do .. or actually what they are limited to doing - might i suggest spending some time learning about a popular linux distribution too as it will bring about a different frame of mind and then you will realize that the anti virus software flaging SuperUser as a virus is actually neither true or a false posotive .. its just working from a different set of perspectives to that of a confident root enabled computer user .
i hope this makes sense without coming across in the wrong way, i just really think people should learn from XDA and the devices they buy & come to XDA for help with .
Respect the info found at XDA -and its users, we all learn together here
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was interesting.
First of all, I am not offended at all and I don't understand how I could.
Well I could probably live without root (except for a couple of useful apps)... but I'm not going to un-root it for now.
I am a sturdy guy and I want to learn everything (everything I am interested into, I mean) about this OS. Trying and trying again, at the cost of some little problems if needed.
As for Linux, almost all my PCs have also it inside (win7 mostly for games), and I have never had a problem worth this name when using it. Never had something like an antivirus there, just some common sense and everything was fine.
I think I should have the same attitude towards Android as many of you have suggested. And I am willing to get some more info about android's antivirus limitations. Just because I'm curious.
Can you suggest some particular post here in xda?
Thanks again!
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
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I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
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Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
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Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
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Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
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You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
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No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.
Can someone explain to me why root on a phone is forbidden?
I ask this because certain apps do not run when a phone is rooted.
But if you run something equal on Windows or Linux it's allright if you have administrator or even Enterprise rights...
I do not understand this...
Regards,
Phoenix007
well if they had the choice and foresight they probably would have created a restricted account for you even on a PC... but it's like oh shucks.... we give them full access to the OS well now let's not do it for mobile phones.
there are many reasons why rooting is restricted
-- reasons justified by the the manufacturer.
is that rooting changes their propriety apps and other information on the phone to the extent that modifying the system could hose the phone completely and therefore is a basis of denying warranty
-certain financial apps and other apps actually have code built into them that look for rooting and will stop working if the phone is rooted with the message that they will not work with rooted phone. there are workarounds in terms of fooling those apps that the phone is not rooted
-rooting gives user full access and if he does not know what is doing that can completely brick the phone which is in many cases is a v valid reason.... search for bricked phone threads on this forum and you see so many of them... though not all of them come from rooting the phone
now the real reason from user perspective
--a lot of Chinese phone manufacturers or even otherwise keep low level system apps running that collect your personal information
if you root a phone you have complete control of disabling any kind of app that's out there that you don't feel is working in your interest and you can basically throw away all those garbage apps that you don't feel have any value but the phone manufacturer wants to keep them
glaring example is Knox in Samsung phones. that app keeps running all the time and most of the time people don't need it.
-if you root a phone you can completely wipe out the stock OS supplied by the manufacturer and put in any kind of OS you want that is compatible
- phone manufacturer like Samsung has tied up with your carrier example t mobile and many a times business model needs that phone should work only with those certain carriers and not with any other carrier or outside that region so it becomes necessary to limit your access to the phone
-it's like the phone company is telling you you pay the cost of the phone and you rented from me. how much is the monthly rent ? $0 pm.... but you still rent it.... phone is not yours (=rooted )
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