Hi
There's allot of improvements, shells, skins..... that are finger-friendly...
I Really like it finger-friendly, it is more comfortable and usually looks good.
I've noticed that the TOUCH PAD of the IPhone is very sensitive for finger touch, while the Hermes needs a very hard touch (Relatively).
Is there a (hard) sensitive touchpad (Digitizer) for heremes ? (something more finger-touch friendly...)
I was looking in ebay, and noticed that there are 2 kinds of Digitizers, does someone knows the difference ?
Digitizer G1
Digitizer G2
Tnx.
I'm afraid neither of those will do what you might think they'd do. The term digitizer refers to a module that consists of a matrix to sense particular change of state in one (or more) given point(s) and translate that as coordinates data in digital form.
There are maybe 2 revisions of them in the ebay links you attached but I don't think they work differently, perhaps one has better sensitivity or responsiveness.
Digitizers activated by pressure works differently than ones activated by mere touch (capacitance). The first is noticable by the requirement of stylus or something to "press" a point to "short circuit" a tiny area in 2 thin layers that are stacked together, they know where the "short circuit" is and report that as the touch point. The latter is activated by the fact that the touch actually alters the "electrical charge" of that particular area.
Common portable devices nowadays still use the press-type, usually it is completely separated from and installed on top of the LCD (if you look closely to your screen when it's turned off you'll notice tiny dots which is the matrix), that's why sometimes they slide around and you have to recalibrate your touch screen. I hope this makes sense.
KaiserVideoDriver has it correct. That's why the iPhone has such a sensative touch screen. Also, I believe that the resistance based touch screens that our phones use are not capable of registering mulitple touch pionts, which is why Apple had to go the opposite route...in order to facilitate the multi touch interface.
From time to time I try and use my Hermes without the stylus, but I constantly find myself either tiring of the constant finger prints and smudges, or I get aggrevated over the touch screen seeming to have a fit from time to time and register touches wrong. It seems to be calibrated for the stylus (i.e. a small, firm touch point); the larger, spread out touch point of a meaty fingertip seems to drive the screen crazy and cause it to register the touch to either of the upper corners. Infuriating when it closes a program or tries to cancel an SMS on you.
New Hero owner here... using it 3 weeks. LOVE the phone, love the 7 pages, love the widgets, love the screen, love SenseUI, HATE the capacitive screen.
Coming form windows mobile for past 5 years, i am expending at least 5x more time and energy to navigate or browse due to this "feature".
I am certain this has been hashed out here before, but I will settle for a short answer, even one that has a laundry list if you like.
All I ask is that you please tell me it has something to add other than MULTI-TOUCH. I could care less about pinch-zoom. Initially when seen on first i-phones it had a wow factor. But very soon on WM, with OperaMini, Netfront, Skyfire, Iris and other browsers, pinch-to-zoom was rendered irrelevant, as all of these browsers provided way more efficient way to zoom in, out, and frame the area of the screen you want to look at. One tap, or two taps, or grab a square positioner (netfront) and tap.
Regardless of marketing, not only were these solutions fantastic, I alos didn't feel any sense of loss.
Now that I HAVE multi-touch on Hero, it's way beyond "yawn". It's more like, "what in the world is the advantage here. all I see is that a capacitive screen is far inferior to a resistive screen for easily 25 reasons. I listed them elsewhere on an XDA "general" forum. Typing: worse. accurate hitting a target: worse, but not just worse, horrible. Tap-hold context menus, require twice as long to press in order to instruct the OS you're indeed pressing for the purpose of holding, vs pressing just to try to make contact. Takes twice the tap impact to activate GO and other action buttons.
So I am dying to hear what is the advantage I have been given on this fantastic $500 USD phone I bought?
2nd question: I am currently using the device straight out the box, with just maybe 25-50 aps or widgets form android marketplace -- which has been fantastically smooth user experience, with perfect degrees of feedback on what access each app will give to the phone etc... very reassuring.
Has the truly amazing world of XDA-devs made some of my major usability complaints above go away, or lessen (after rooting the phone and using a custom ROM)?
Sign me: Baffled and Dismayed in San Francisco
Are there no replies here because this has been previously beaten to death? If so, wold someone please point me to the best thread discussion on this subject matter?
Thank you.
personally, i love a capacitive screen for typing.. as long as you can hit the buttons. For me i have no problem in the horizontal view, but they shouldnt have used a "qwerty" keyboard in the horizontal view, i despise it aha.
for the browsers multi touch, personally i just think its kinda cool, but as you say not very productive.
so really to me, i just love the feeling of capacitive touch screens...when they work of course!
and i know that companies "try" to put capacitive screens on as much as possible (because the iphone and ipod touch are so popular) but you can only really have it on bigger screens. The hero has pretty much the "bare minimum" screen size, and thats why we have some problems!
sorry i didnt really answer your question, just my thoughts but i guess the advantage is (was ment to be) that iphone touch screen experience, but capacitive screens work much better when the buttons have space between them (on bigger screens!)
THis was very helpful thank you. I know what you mean that the glassy smoothness is elegant and competes, I guess, with the look & feel of the Apple handheld devices. But also you seem to be answering my question, which is really the essentiual thing wanted to know:
Apparently there is ZERO added-value that capacitive brings over resistive screen than pinch-zoom... and that glossy glass feeling.
Is this correct, though? Can it really be that the primary reason for running Android on a capacitive screen is its sexiness factor in comparing to glossy look of the iphone?
I know there MUST be threads galore at XDA regarding the value of stylus for rapid composing, and more rapidly scrolling thru a long list on contacts, going into something like 2x or 5x speed flashing through the letters of the alphabet, then slowing down to land on desired contact...
The HTC Leo thread addressed this quite a bit, with both groans and raves for that WM device...
xsirhc6x said:
personally, i love a capacitive screen for typing.. as long as you can hit the buttons. For me i have no problem in the horizontal view, but they shouldnt have used a "qwerty" keyboard in the horizontal view, i despise it aha.
for the browsers multi touch, personally i just think its kinda cool, but as you say not very productive.
so really to me, i just love the feeling of capacitive touch screens...when they work of course!
and i know that companies "try" to put capacitive screens on as much as possible (because the iphone and ipod touch are so popular) but you can only really have it on bigger screens. The hero has pretty much the "bare minimum" screen size, and thats why we have some problems!
sorry i didnt really answer your question, just my thoughts but i guess the advantage is (was ment to be) that iphone touch screen experience, but capacitive screens work much better when the buttons have space between them (on bigger screens!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i used apple as more of an example but i dont think i was very clear before sorry!
Although the screen is glossy and well glass, but i ment that alot of people like having that "touch" not "tap" feel. like how with capacitive you can barely touch the screen and it responds whereas resistive you have to push on the screen. so this makes companies want to use capacitive so there putting it on alot of the bigger touch screen phones
quicksite said:
Coming form windows mobile for past 5 years, i am expending at least 5x more time and energy to navigate or browse due to this "feature"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well here is your problem. and I know exactly how you feel, having some PDA and SE P1 also with resistive touch. you'll have to get used to it, there is no other way. it looks similar, like, it's a touchscreen! but difference in technology makes it hard to shift your way of using it
same thing as forgetting clickable keyboards where you can feel edge of each key and you KNOW exactly what you have pressed... and believe me, when you get that feeling with almost microscopic P1 keyboard, first few weeks of brand new high tech on-screen typing makes you smash that phone into wall next to you... but it gets better with time
This is the correct answer. Most people prefer the touch feel of capacitive compared to the press needed for resistive screens.
xsirhc6x said:
well i used apple as more of an example but i dont think i was very clear before sorry!
Although the screen is glossy and well glass, but i ment that alot of people like having that "touch" not "tap" feel. like how with capacitive you can barely touch the screen and it responds whereas resistive you have to push on the screen. so this makes companies want to use capacitive so there putting it on alot of the bigger touch screen phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved from an Omnia i900 (WM, resistive screen) to the HTC Hero (Android, capacitive screen) and I am really enjoying the sensitivity of the Hero's screen. Everything is activated with a feather-light touch which really adds to the experience of using a touchscreen device.
On the Omnia, when I tried to halt a scrolling list with my finger, more often than not, I would end up choosing an item instead of stopping the scolling. This got irritating enough that I ended up using the scroll bars most of the time. On the Hero, the scrolling list amazingly stops when my finger makes contact without any unintended item selection. This probably has to do with the sensitivity of the capacitive screen but whatever it is, it works brilliantly.
The only time when I miss the resistive screen is if I need to accurately touch points on the screen due to poorly designed software but this can generally be avoided. Copy and paste could potentially have been a pain with a capacitive screen but the Hero has a trackball which gets the job done quite well.
I agree that multi-touch is nice to have but not critical. It is the sensitivity of the capacitive screen that really makes my day !
IMHO the capacitive screen is one of the best parts of my Hero (the other is not having to use clunky Windows Mobile anymore). It makes it so much more user friendly - and that attribute is what has made the iphone the best seller it is.
It is so much easier to scroll through my emails, texts, contacts, apps etc without accidently clicking on one and opening. And the same applies when scrolling between screens. In my last phone (HTC Touch Diamond) I was forever opening apps and windows I did not mean to when trying to scroll up down or sideways.
And scrolling long lists (I have over 200 contacts) is so easy. Just flick and let it run and then stop it with a finger. Try that on a non-capacitive screen and you are likely to open something you did not mean to open.
And, admittedly after a bit of practice, I have found the QERTY keyboard is no problem at all. It is almost as easy to use with my finger as my TD was with a stylus. And it is even easier when you are in landscape mode.
Still, each to his/her own. If, after giving it some time to get used to, you still don't like it I am sure there are plenty of alternatives out there - it always amazes me the number of different high-end phones HTC makes.
Resistive touch screen: You have to press harder to make it work better (Rinzai school)
Capacitive touch screen: You have to touch lighter to make it work better (Soto school)
Volker1 said:
Resistive touch screen: You have to press harder to make it work better (Rinzai school)
Capacitive touch screen: You have to touch lighter to make it work better (Soto school)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well somehow you faked me out with your zen-like branch differentiations. I clicked on Soto school first --- and I thought, therefore, that when I clicked on Rinzai, it would communicate more aggressive, harder. But it didn't!
Thus, i don't understand your analogy other than making it up in my head, with the meaning being:
Expend less energy and force, grasshopper, and all will be revealed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since the day of my posting this topic, I am starting to feel a shift by gentler tapping. In some cases, yes, I am seeing a difference in better responsiveness.
But I have to admit that this is not always the case. Leading to:
Dac0908:
well here is your problem. and I know exactly how you feel, having some PDA and SE P1 also with resistive touch. you'll have to get used to it, there is no other way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to get it. Quick illustration: My sim card (my old one from t-mobile wing) happens to be going bad, I just discovered. So I had to swap it out from my HERO back to my WING just to see if I could make a phone call. I had not used the WING (resistive) for a while.
I immediately started making mistakes in the opposite direction. I wasn't pushing hard enough now, and was not activating my selection. So, young grasshopper may be getting the Zen of Capacitive Touch!
it looks similar, like, it's a touchscreen! but difference in technology makes it hard to shift your way of using it. same thing as forgetting clickable keyboards where you can feel edge of each key and you KNOW exactly what you have pressed... and believe me, when you get that feeling with almost microscopic P1 keyboard, first few weeks of brand new high tech on-screen typing makes you smash that phone into wall next to you... but it gets better with time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get your point exactly... So, sounds like the people in this forum who have had their HEROs for longer time... must think I am just whining! ha hah
Here are my conclusions thus far:
(a) lighter touch IS helping select more easily.
(b) I began to do as others have said on the soft keyboard-- aim your finger just a nudge above the keys. (because the point of tangency between finger and screen is quite a bit below the tip of the fingernail) (** me thinks they should provide a settings option called "Offset finger touch?" -- and I could select that to in fact shift all the target zones of the on-screen keys slightly below the way they display on-screen, thereby improving accuracy dramatically.)
(c) even with "getting used to" adjustments, the accuracy on the portrait-layout keyboard is still lower on those left edge and right edge keys... And thus I am finding that landscape keyboard is almost becoming required for me (and i have thin fingers!)
(d) On the WM resistive screen, I found that, when using handwriting via stylus, the system really did LEARN to compensate for the style of handwriting of an individual by going thru the alphabet to select the path of drawing each letter that best matches how I write... it absolutely improved handwriting recognition) (AND MAY AS WELL SAY: I miss that the most of all things: I loved being able to jot notes down with stylus and handwriting. I used that daily... SO I miss it)
Similarly, there is an OFFSET ANGLE adjustment on the WM input screen controls, which absolutely made a huge difference: I the natural positioning of a hand and fingers in resting mode on a flat object (a screen) has one's index finger aiming on an angle inward. Thus, the angle adjustment was a smart user interface setting, that I would guess WM came up with over time, as better recognition of this issue surfaced.
(e) I can't expect to use my capacitive screen phone in the lazy ways I used my WM phone with resistive: ie, laying down in bed and tapping out a message to send. When I try to do that with Hero, the angles of finger-contact with the screen are "off" from a standing or sitting alignment of where you hold the device and how you strike the keys. Trying to tap out a note using portrait mode, while laying in bed, and holding phone to its side (or any other awkward position) = probably 10% success rate of hitting the correct keys... Mostly due to that distance-factor between the tip of the finger -- the sight-targeting cross-hairs used for decades in pressing most things that need pressing -- and the underside of the finger, which makes the contact point lower than the tip by a somewhat predictable distance.
I still think there are some ways to go where various compensation settings could nail those issues and bring touch accuracy to much higher percentage, especially in those situations of at what angle you're holding the device in one hand, and tapping with the other hand, is "off", like laying in bed.
(f) Accelerometer: again, when laying in bed (lazy mode), the auto portrait-landscape shifting almost never occurs and i have to hold the phone parallel to the ground and flick it in order to get the layout adjustment, then continue at whatever angle it is I am holding the phone.
(g) WISHLIST #2: (after handwriting/ capacitive stylus is brought to market by HTC, etc) .. is: COntext-sensitive accelerometer.. such that it works in almost any hand-held 3d location, and a 90 degree shift = a shift layout command.
------------------
Okay, these are my responses from a Human Factors Interface Design professional background.
------------------
Maybe I will have to talk to "Charles", the guy in my nieghborhood in San Francisco, who just happens to be the designer of the original G1 for Google, both in form factor and user interface of android...
San Francisco can be pretty interesting in that way.. you never know who you'll bump into, just like in L.A. with movie stars!
kenkaw said:
I am really enjoying the sensitivity of the Hero's screen. Everything is activated with a feather-light touch which really adds to the experience of using a touchscreen device....On the Hero, the scrolling list amazingly stops when my finger makes contact without any unintended item selection. This probably has to do with the sensitivity of the capacitive screen but whatever it is, it works brilliantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to feel this now, too. So I am shifting mental gears in my head.
Copy and paste could potentially have been a pain with a capacitive screen but the Hero has a trackball which gets the job done quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is actually where I have the most problems.... way more than touching the screen, which I am becoming accustomed to, and now seeing what p[eople are saying about feathertouch responsiveness.
I have not been able to find any settings for trackball responsiveness, the kind you'd find on any laptop for the touchpad or mouse rate of movement -- from super fast to super slow. IS there such an adjustment?
I want to love the trackball, and I am getting better at it. But to me, this is almost just the opposite of featherweight touch on screen. My finger "wants" a more "sticky" or locked-on connection to the trackball, so i can control it better with micro-movements. For me, right now, it is so slippery as to super-slide way out of range, and shifting fields on form data entry, and , when I am using it on a slider bar such as for volume control or color mixing (chnaging color of a background), it's sensitivity is way too wild for even a light touch attempt to control it
QUESTION: I am not yet using any rooted rom from XDA... I am still experiencing the Hero out of the box. So, are there any added control settings that people at XDA have figured out and added to the custom ROMS?
thank you
I agree that multi-touch is nice to have but not critical. It is the sensitivity of the capacitive screen that really makes my day ![/QUOTE]
peterc10 said:
And scrolling long lists (I have over 200 contacts) is so easy. Just flick and let it run and then stop it with a finger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I a starting to feel this now. I was flicking too hard initially -- as part of my learning curve. I am now getting the hang of it and am getting the kind of control you speak of. nice!
it always amazes me the number of different high-end phones HTC makes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No ****. what an amazing company... and why I like how XDA-developers built up around HTC... This is a serious question: Is HTC a good stock buy? They seem like moreso than ever, with their new branding and direct-to-consumer marketing campaigns (at least in the USA, big time), ready to leap out as a huge brand in the way Samsung shot up from obscurity many years ago, into a top-5 leading brand of electrionics.
Okay,
This happens only on the bottom right of the screen, if I press down with a little bit of pressure you can see the LCD screen distort, This occurred on my 1st device (requested a replacement) the replacement does the same exact thing in the same exact area.
So is this just a overall defect with the device (Since it's present on more than 1 device I received) or something with just a bad batch?
To test:
Open up the browser, on a white screen landscape mode, just use some pressure with ur finger press on the screen and the lcd will distort/wave into blue-ish color. Do the same test around you will see that 1 side will always have this effect but the other 3 won't.
The old device this issue was far worse than the new one. Only other note to make.
No issue here
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using xda app-developers app
Nyxagamemnon said:
Okay,
This happens only on the bottom right of the screen, if I press down with a little bit of pressure you can see the LCD screen distort, This occurred on my 1st device (requested a replacement) the replacement does the same exact thing in the same exact area.
So is this just a overall defect with the device (Since it's present on more than 1 device I received) or something with just a bad batch?
To test:
Open up the browser, on a white screen landscape mode, just use some pressure with ur finger press on the screen and the lcd will distort/wave into blue-ish color. Do the same test around you will see that 1 side will always have this effect but the other 3 won't.
The old device this issue was far worse than the new one. Only other note to make.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's bad.. but it wont cause any issues if you don't press on the screen really hard
Well I'm exchanging the second device as well.
Will keep going round and round until one without a defect lands in my hand.
On my Galaxy note 2 no matter how hard I press nothing. DNA little pressure it begins, the 1st unit was very easy to cause the ripple effect, but the second unit was much harder maybe 3rd times the charm.
Well 3rd device does it as well so its an inherent trait of the product.
It sounds to me like the screen is set in tilted a little. A lot of HTC phones have this, I've noticed. Almost all the replacements I had on my rezound you can clearly see the screen set wrong from the light leakage on the bottom of the panel. Actually, I just pressed the bottom right* corner of my screen (the part that's higher) and it actually does the same thing but it's barely noticeable though on my rezound and only on darker colors.
Well the DNA is going back this is basically un acceptable to me. 3 units all of them do it, if you lightly press on the screen it will ripple.
The funny thing is I can feel the difference when you press down on the left side of the device it's much stronger than on the bottom right.
This is definitely not an issue on my phone. My One X had this issue. (coupled with the light bleed from bottom ). Looks like some DNAs are affected by same issue.
But its definitely not common thing. The second DNA I had ordered for a friend was received yesterday and both are perfect with no sign of any such screen ripple issue. Might be the case of bad batch at particular store.
No issue here on my phone. No offense, but it sounds like you are looking for a reason to switch phones. You either have extremely bad luck to get three defective phones, or you are trying too hard to find something wrong.
It happens to me when you press directly in the middle of the phone. Although it's not an issue for me, since the amount needed to press to see it would not be used on the phone on a regular day.
I'm going to try a diffrent source. Yes all the devices have this issue.
I'm going to post a video as well.
Mine does this as well, turns like a purplish color like if you pressed hard on an lcd tv. It hasnt bothered me at all and i love the phone but just wanted to say i have it too
All of the devices have this effect.
My HTC One X has this thingy but you have to press hard...which is not what's intended with a capacitive screen, the problem is that the more the phones are slim and the more screens are fragile, just touch the screen not press it
Not all devices have it but the dna def does have it.
Problem with "dead zones" on screen, where touch is not working. Am I the only one?
Hi!
I have some problem with my Honor 10. I believe that it existed since I bought it brand new from the store. On the left side of my screen is a narrow "zone" that have few millimeters and where the touch is not working. This "zone" is a narrow "strap" going from bottom to the top of the screen, along the left edge of the screen. Usually I don't notice that but sometimes it is a little irritating when I am touching "a" letter on my keyboard and nothing happens, and I have to touch it a millimeter more on the right, than on the left. There is no such problem on the right side of the screen.
I installed application to test touch screen called "Touch Screen Test".
and here you can see what do I mean by that "dead zone" - I ran my finger across the left edge screen on this app, trying to go as much to the left as possible and there is a line on the left, where the touch is not going completely to the left edge of the screen. Here is a photo (sorry for not using IMG tag, but when I used it, the image did not work):
i.imgur.com/2COvHvA.jpg
( the white line fading to gray are where I touched my finger, couldn't go more to the left, as if touchscreen was broke there)
On the right side, there is no such problem, or the "dead zone" is much smaller:
i.imgur.com/rcLQFnK.jpg
Does my device have some kind of factory problem, or all Honor 10 users have this thing? Is it to prevent people from accidentally touching their screen with finger while holding the phone? Maybe it can be turned off?
Thanks for any help and information!
Touch test
Honor10User444 said:
Hi!
I have some problem with my Honor 10. I believe that it existed since I bought it brand new from the store. On the left side of my screen is a narrow "zone" that have few millimeters and where the touch is not working. This "zone" is a narrow "strap" going from bottom to the top of the screen, along the left edge of the screen. Usually I don't notice that but sometimes it is a little irritating when I am touching "a" letter on my keyboard and nothing happens, and I have to touch it a millimeter more on the right, than on the left. There is no such problem on the right side of the screen.
I installed application to test touch screen called "Touch Screen Test".
and here you can see what do I mean by that "dead zone" - I ran my finger across the left edge screen on this app, trying to go as much to the left as possible and there is a line on the left, where the touch is not going completely to the left edge of the screen. Here is a photo (sorry for not using IMG tag, but when I used it, the image did not work):
i.imgur.com/2COvHvA.jpg
( the white line fading to gray are where I touched my finger, couldn't go more to the left, as if touchscreen was broke there)
On the right side, there is no such problem, or the "dead zone" is much smaller:
i.imgur.com/rcLQFnK.jpg
Does my device have some kind of factory problem, or all Honor 10 users have this thing? Is it to prevent people from accidentally touching their screen with finger while holding the phone? Maybe it can be turned off?
Thanks for any help and information!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately what you have is a factory problem. I don't see why they would put some sort of protection only on one side.
I did the test as well and this is my result. When I draw a vertical line the screen protector doesn't allow me to go exactly to the edge but with a horizontal line I could. And I have the same result on both sides
maxray said:
Unfortunately what you have is a factory problem. I don't see why they would put some sort of protection only on one side.
I did the test as well and this is my result. When I draw a vertical line the screen protector doesn't allow me to go exactly to the edge but with a horizontal line I could. And I have the same result on both sides
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see that you have FHD+ resolution on your Honor 10. I've set mine to FHD+ too, and did the test again. I can confirm, that on mine, the line is somewhere between the letters "e" and "n" in word "open" (there is "Open menu by the volume up" on the upper side of screen in this app). On your Honor, the line is much more to the left, much closer to the edge, between the first letter "O" and "p".
And on mine, even when I do horizontal line, it stops there, do not go to the edge.
Thanks for helping me. So seems like this is just a problem with my Honor 10, not some kind of weird feature. Lesson learned - I will check things like that while buying a phone in the future.
Honor10User444 said:
I can see that you have FHD+ resolution on your Honor 10. I've set mine to FHD+ too, and did the test again. I can confirm, that on mine, the line is somewhere between the letters "e" and "n" in word "open" (there is "Open menu by the volume up" on the upper side of screen in this app). On your Honor, the line is much more to the left, much closer to the edge, between the first letter "O" and "p".
And on mine, even when I do horizontal line, it stops there, do not go to the edge.
Thanks for helping me. So seems like this is just a problem with my Honor 10, not some kind of weird feature. Lesson learned - I will check things like that while buying a phone in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem , glad to help
I am really sorry that you have this issue ?
---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
My phone is still under warranty(support app>me>my device>), probably yours as well. June should be the last month. Try to see if you can have it fixed or replaced it is worth trying even if you are going to move on with another phone ?