Thought id ask to see what kind of experiences everybody has had.... This isn't meant to be a warranty question I kinda what to ascertain what the TS can do instead of what it was meant to do
As I understand from the factory the TS should be able to withstand, hand washing, being rained on, sweat and the occasional spillage, I mention these as none of these having any additional water pressure that would force water ingress for example, showering.
Once you open the back case is it game over.... or if you properly screw back in you will get back the same level of water protection?...
I mean physical protection as obviously warranty is automatically void...
Anyone thought about getting some Hyrdrophobic coating?
http://www.nanostate.co.uk/flash-flood-to-waterproof-smartphones-and-tablets-5ml-p-3.php
Best advice would be to treat it the same as your phone. Try not to get it wet. I had to remove the cover on mine due to an issue flashing. The rubber seal was not properly placed from the factory to begin with.
Regarding the hydrophobic coating. I have considered it, but not some do it yourself process. There is a company that you can ship your device to. They will put it in a vacuum chamber and inject a gas that seeps into every tiny area. You can't get everywhere from a do it yourself kit.
I've opened the back case of my TS (voiding the water warranty) due to a factory shipped bad flash, and since to install a micro-sd card + check for water. I haven't had any seepage from wear in the shower or while washing dishes. I don't think the two physical buttons are designed to be used while submerged, and the touchscreen is useless when wet (if you're lucky, if it's covered in droplets the screen is registering touches all over the place).
removing the back cover does not break any magic water sealing. between the back cover and the housing is a thin and easily damaged rubber ring which needs to be reinstalled correctly. if you read through the forum, you'll find the QA process is not very refined, and many devices with unbroken "OK" stickers have suffered water damage among other issues
as you've alredy removed the back cover, you can remove the battery and do some testing to see if your seal holds. at least without power going through the circuits, any damage will be minimal and you'll know your tolerances.
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The two buttons were exactly designed to be used underwater. The original design had no buttons, but kick starter backers pointed out that touchscreens do not work at all underwater. So Omate added buttons to the design. They just leak, that's all.
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Related
today i experienced any phone holders worst nightmare... dropping your pride and joy in water!
but after this i quickly turned the phone off, used an hairdryer xD and put everything back in, and as if by magic, it was alive!!
although the screen did shatter :/
so is this amazing piece of technology really water proof?
No it is NOT.
You`re lucky this time, but if you ever send it in for any repair they may deny warranty because of the moisture indicators.
Most phones or any electronic devices for that matter survive a (short) drop in water due to multiple reasons:
- the case is relatively airtight. Water cannot immediately "flood" the device
- Water is a very bad electrical conductor (except if you drop it into saltwater or the unflushed toiled)
As far as conductivity is conserned, it's possible to run naked computers (no case, ...) in purified water.
However there an other issue kicks in: corrosin. Water is a very agressive substance (mainly due to oxygen) and will "eat" away electrical conductors very quickly and cause irreparable damages.
Drying off your phone may not be enough, it's recommended to:
- immediately pull the battery (that's one of the reasons I wouldn't want to get one with built-in battery)
- put it into a bag with dry rice and/or grounded herbs (whatever you have at hand) so that it's completely covered
- put it in a somewhat warm (or sunny) location so that the water vaporates and is taken up by the rice (You may want to stir once a day)
- keep fingers crossed and boot
Note that water-caused damage must not always be visible from the beginning. It's sufficient for a small component to die (e.g. a capacitor) so that in the following days/weeks/months the other parts overload too and the components start failing one after another.
Usually you're fine though.
dazlehd said:
today i experienced any phone holders worst nightmare... dropping your pride and joy in water!
but after this i quickly turned the phone off, used an hairdryer xD and put everything back in, and as if by magic, it was alive!!
although the screen did shatter :/
so is this amazing piece of technology really water proof?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good move on the hairdryer , just dont microwave it
Not waterproof
Defo lucky. Mine was simply rained upon whilst I was abroad and it is now not working - I didn't think of the hairdryer at the time. The company I sent it into for repairs said that the motherboard has corroded and that it needs replacing. Naturally, it will not turn on and I still want the data off of it though - any suggestions?
Lucky this time. Be careful... huh.
but some people have reported the same other forums. "Blumps, drying, works!"
No it isn't but in many cases a phone can be resurrected. Most important is to not turn it on until it is fully dry.
My friend dropped his S2 in about 50cm of salt / seawater while we were fishing. Took us a minute to find it. I used a knife to remove the screws and opened it up. Before that I rinsed it in fresh water. Let it dry for about an hour, put it back together and it worked just like before. That was 6 months ago and its still running fine.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
So, as we all know the Omate TrueSmart is as waterproof as a leaky boat, or perhaps a sponge.
However, I don't think there are any other Horologists on the forum at the moment. ( wikipedia horologist http:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki/horologist ).
After looking at the "seals" on the case buttons, and the laughable o-ring that Umeox/Omate have chosen to use on the back, along with the piece of silicone flap that they are using to seal the SIM card... I have to say that expecting it to be water resistant to any degree is a bit laughable.
So, I have a solution, the same one used by Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Citizen, Seiko, etc.. etc...
* Liquid silicone sealant gel on the SIM card seal and flap.
* Replace the silicone o-rings for the watch back with a thin silicone gasket, with more sealant gel
* Retrofit and replace the button seals, or create black silicone button covers that better seal them
I'm going to have to look at the speaker port on the watchband. I don't know if there is a simple solution there to make it compliant for 1 meter depth without severely affecting the quality of the sound output from that port. A brief examination makes it seem that the port -might- be able to take IP67 conditions .. but without reinforcement, I doubt it could take the forces involved in a swim, waves, wakes, spas.
Still, I think I can put together a kit, and instructions that careful and diligent people could use to retrofit the TrueSmart to make it far more waterproof than the manufacturer does. The kit would cost between $15 and $25 US, mostly to cover the cost of making custom molds for the silicone gaskets. ( There is a local TechShop here in Austin, and I have a CNC mill to make the aluminum molds, and all the design experience and software I need. Even so, a small super-accurate mold is a couple hundred dollars worth of materials and work. )
If there is enough interest evidenced here on a poll, I'll make the kit.
Sincerely,
Martin Bogomolni
Maker, Horologist, Coder, and Machinist
Need to redesign the case so that the speaker is sealed as well.
I've read that the O-rings are different among different runs. If the shape of the part of the case they fit against is different as well, wouldn't that make this effort require potentially as many different molds as the number of firmwares Loki has been trying to contend with? Or is it just the ring that's been different?
The case design is different. There's at least two maybe three.
Then that means I'll need to make two or three variants of the kit. This will also require some externally-visible way to identify the differences between various batches of TrueSmart watches.
Lokifish Marz said:
The case design is different. There's at least two maybe three.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think, just an opinion, that if the gasket between the body and the back cover has holes for the screws to pass through it like on my Last of the Kickstarter Dev Eds, 1/8/1900, delivered first of the USA group in early Feb, then that gasket works if properly placed and screwed together. The housing on these is flat, without raised screw hole posts and no groove.
I think the main problem you are going to need to overcome is the buttons and the mic pinhole leaking.
The speaker, if it doesn't mind getting wet itself, provides no entry path into the body if the wire set going in has been properly sealed inside (white sealant on mine, I think). Water could destroy the speaker, OK maybe, but not the watch unless it can follow the speaker connections back up into the body. Where the band halves meet the body on both sides there is a hole through the body to let the cables through, sealed inside with some white stuff. Maybe sealed...
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The speaker is inside the case (under the square "bump" in the backplate) and uses nothing more than double sided tape. It is partly held into place by the plastic insert.
What is that open slot for then, in the band on the speaker side ?
Where the sound comes out ?
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Yep. (see attached image)
Yes I was also curious about how the waterproofness of the speaker and microphone port would be approached. But I'm definitely down for one of these.
For what it's worth, I've submerged (no more than 2ft) my NA 1gb/8gb OTS and used it in the shower after having opened the bottom. During the first week I was constantly checking inside the case for internal moisture and didn't see any. It's been a while, but I remember thinking the physical buttons looked like they would let water in if used while underwater, but that didn't seem to happen.
for giggles, my omate arrived with bad software, and only pulling the battery would fix it. I had first tried letting the battery die out but the vcom drivers didn't fully take until i pulled the battery, so the water seal warranty was moot from early on. I don't remember how long I waited, but I sent the following screen to cecilia and a few other mailboxes at omate for help with no response (surprise!) before pulling the battery and stepping through the restore guides.
Looking back, I can't even imagine how the bootloader got to be so trashed! Volume up and down you say?
I am in. Also shared on G+ and KS comments the poll, good luck!
Yep
I'm definitely in support of this. I created a kayaking app that is pretty useless with the watch the way it is... having this kit out there would be great.
Hi. I am a watchmaker (horlogist?) from Germany and its my daily job to make watches watertight.
I have access to professional measuring devices for checking the watches if they are sealed. It is testet via air pressure, no water. The watchcase deformation is measured by fine sensors and if it is deforming in the given parameters then the device says proof or leak. There are ranges from -0,8 Bar to +20 Bar.
Further tests to locate the leak are made with water tests.
I havent received my pre ordered true smart yet (but I own a simvalley AW-414.go). Before I would test the true smart I would like to know how much pressure it could take before the screen brakes.
After the long wait and seeing this IPx7 drama unfold, I decided to just flip my TrueSmart on delivery - and flog it on eBay/Amazon without ever opening the box. Depending on the delivery timeline and other factors (such as the impending release of the Polar V800 and Garmin fenix 2) I may reconsider that strategy if this "aftermarket waterproofing" plan gains momentum.
I checked the option to be willing to pay for professional install (having waited this long - and the fact that the V800 is another $100 more expensive than the TrueSmart) but I'm more than happy to do the install myself if the kit is solid. From what I gather in the initial post, it's going to be a far sight better than the factory seal. So, if I keep my TrueSmart I'd be in for either the home install or the pro install option.
FWIW - I could care less about using this phone in **** Tracy mode [trademark pending]. For my money, stuff a grommet in the ports and glue/seal them in place - my goal is to use the device for training.
DerUhrmacher said:
HThe watchcase deformation is measured by fine sensors and if it is deforming in the given parameters then the device says proof or leak. There are ranges from -0,8 Bar to +20 Bar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a pressurized submersion test it will fill with water before anything else. The case was never tested beyond about 0.015 Bar and even then it wasn't tested properly (bare case, no buttons or straps and all the ports sealed in 15cm of water).
Them doing something as simple as not putting in the speaker right or the double sided tape not seal correctly on the speaker will negate any water resistance it may have had.
Had any luck looking into this?
I would definitely be interested in a kit to improve waterproofing...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Me too ! I don't see a survey, maybe Tapatalk does not support surveys ?
I bought a NeverWet spray set from HomeDePot recently. They show how to treat an iPhone 5 by removing the back cover and spraying inside. I don't have an iPhone or I might try it. Wouldn't care...the stuff worked pretty good on my shoes though.
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In the meantime...
Hi horologists,
I was wondering: is there anything a layman could do in the meantime to, at least, improve the water sealing on the TrueSmart? I'm not interested in submerging it or taking a shower; I just don't want to be afraid that my watch will short if I get stuck in rain and put it in my pocket.
One of the things I obviously don't want to be doing is just smearing vaseline all over it as that'll ruin the silicone components, correct? I am currently purchasing silicone grease (dielectric so non-conductive) to improve the seals on the bottom and around the sim card case. What should I do about the buttons? Can I put more grease around their edges? Would vaseline be apprpriate there, since it's coming in contact with my skin and there seems to be no silicone gaskets? What's the best quick fix for buttons?
Sorry if these questions are stupid but... this is admittedly coming from a place of utter ignorance. : )
Take care and thanks very much.
Hello,
Something happened to my watch. I opened it to install an SD card. I did as the instructions says, carefully. The rubber gasket was well placed and I tightened the screws the maximum I could, with the provided screwdriver. I guess it would not be tight at all, because, although it has been wet three times and anything happened, Yesterday it was exposed to sweat for a while, and then washed the same way like previous times. Today it worked well all the morning, but around noon, I saw it appeared many stripes on the screen and checking the clock externally I've finally seen condensation into the lens, so I guess, obviously, that moisture has entered inside the watch. I've opened the watch, remove battery and SD card, and then introduced it into rice, using an airtight container to try drying it.
Lens condensation has disappeared, but in the display is still appearing lines.
I wonder what can I do, who should I contact for assistance to repair, where should I send it for repair in case I can't revive the screen, because as I think, this type of damage is not covered by warranty.
I am disappointed with this device because of this. It should not be so complicated to close it and to keep it well sealed. Its design in this particular point is disastrous. I can ensure that the rubber seal was installed properly, and the only thing I can imagine is that the screws do not stay tight properly, but I repeat that I tightened it all the way I could, strongly, until the limit of not to damage the screw heads, and checking for the joints are well sealed. If I finally can fix the watch, the next time I need to open the back cover, I'll pre-tighten it with a sergeant tool before tightening the screws... it seems to be necessary...
Thank you for your help.
It is ruined. Sell it for parts maybe. A shame.
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lanzas said:
If I finally can fix the watch, the next time I need to open the back cover, I'll pre-tighten it with a sergeant tool before tightening the screws... it seems to be necessary...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a waste of time. There is no way to make the existing case waterproof - not just the two screw openings but also the antenna, speaker, microphone and buttons are all possible routes for moisture ingress.
One look at the SIM cover and its pretend gasket convinced me of this. There is not enough structural integrity to ensure a good seal. The gasket will not be compressed in a way that makes a watertight seal - over tightening might even make things worse by deforming the plastic.
If you ever get it to work again, keep it dry.
lanzas said:
Yesterday it was exposed to sweat for a while, and then washed the same way like previous times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a very good idea to wash an electronic device that has no water / moisture protection what so ever (the seals don't do much good, and there are lots of other gaps in the watch where water can get in). Sometimes devices can recover when dried completely. Maybe put it in a bag of rice, that's great for absorbing moisture... But most likely, it's dead.
It is supposed to be a waterproof watch...
Definitely the screen is broken. The watch works fine, but the screen shows a lot of lines that don't allow clear visualization. No one from Omate answered my email...
I feel cheated... and silly...
You WERE cheated, we all were. Don't feel silly though, you were misled by a pro.
You might possibly be able to replace the display with an iPod Nano display, but I don't know anyone who has and an iPod Nano display might be worth more than your TrueSmart.
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Hello everyone.
I was looking for a non-damaging way for checking if the phone is still watertight with front glass cracked.
I supposed that increasing/decreasing the air pressure inside the phone and waiting how long it will stay deformed would be quite a good idea. (I understand that air-tight != water-tight)
To my surprise, blowing a compressed air into the microphone port causes to increase the pressure inside and deforms back panel, and then stays like this for a few seconds or more. (However I can't simply pump it with my mouth). Related video:
Then I tried to pump it and submerge in water to see where are potential leaking places. Here is the result (starts at 0:10):
It appears that most of the air goes through the microphone port, but there are also bubbles around panel, however the cracked screen seems tight.
My questions are:
1) Is it normal that you can pump the phone through microphone port like this and that the air comes out that quickly?
2) Should I improve the sealing of the back panel?
I'm not going to swim, just feel safer in case of rainy day or accidental splash.
Thanks in advance.
great vid. I'm a little bit surprised when I see the bubbles coming out when you did the waterproof test. I don't think that's supposed to happen.. but I believe it'll survive a rain and other watery splash. anyway does the phone functions normally after that? and how do you improve the sealing if I may know? thank you.
The phone seems fine. So far no problems occurred at all and I haven't seen any signs of moisture.
I assume that the sealing is made of heat-based glue, so I'll try heating edges (as you do before disassembly) and squeeze for some time. If that won't work, it would be necessary to take off the panel and replace the whole seal.
Okay, story time. Some time ago, the battery in my Z5c swelled up and pushed the battery cover off the back of the phone. I replace the battery myself, & also order new (supposedly OEM) adhesive for the back glass. It does NOT stick on well, popping off one side or the other every few minutes. After fighting it for a while (ordering additional replacement adhesive and trying to re-clean and re-apply it a couple more times), it seems to finally stay in place.
Fast-forward a few months. I see the back glass coming off again. Oh, great, here we go again. I peel it off, and find that the replacement battery is a *little* inflated. Not by much, and not nearly as much as the original battery, but even though it seems to barely be a problem, it's also clear that the battery cover is not skin-tight as it was when it went in. Perhaps it was "enough" that given the tolerances inside, it still managed to push the back glass off. Okay, fine: I bought 2 replacement batteries at the time, so I'll put the other one in.
Fast-forward another few months to a couple of weeks ago. SAME BLASTED THING. Battery barely inflated, back cover coming off, but not really 100% clear whether the battery *really* is the culprit, or whether this adhesive I keep buying is just crap, or if I'm not applying it correctly.
Well, this time I'm running into the same problem trying to re-apply it that I did the first time around: it simply Will. Not. Stay. Put. I've tried the usual tricks I have read about: namely, making sure everything is squeaky-clean, and warming up the adhesive before pressing the back glass onto the phone, and then giving it a little time to cure with something heavy on top of the phone (if I had some clamps, I might try to use those instead). It helps for a couple of hours, but then the back cover just comes RIGHT off again.
Here is my hypothesis: either my phone's chassis is was not quite up to manufacturing standards, or I keep re-assembling it wrong, or something along those lines, because the battery sticks up slightly above the surrounding black frame. And what I can see when the back first starts coming off is that it is slightly "bowing" a bit...the top and bottom are sunk slightly below the plastic frame, but the middle bows out to the point where it rises slightly ABOVE the plastic frame. It's as if either the battery is sitting too high inside the phone, or the frame around the battery is sitting too low.
I have tried taking it all apart again and putting it all back together, but no dice.
Has anybody ever experienced anything like this? It's super frustrating. It seems clearly like a design defect. I just wish I could understand how things are different right now vs. when it was originally assembled at the factory.
Right now I'm sitting here seriously thinking that maybe the answer to this is to layer TWO back adhesive stickers on top of each other, in order to raise the edges of the glass back up enough above the battery that the back won't bow out anymore...
Argh!
...oh, also: and are genuine Sony batteries REALLY this crap in terms of quality?? If so, they should be ashamed and should have recalled many of these phones. I have yet to run into a genuine Sony Z5c battery that doesn't have at least a small build-up of gases within the battery pack after a few short months of use. I have been shying away from third-party batteries by no-name companies, but at this point I'm thinking that those could only be worse if they managed to spontaneously burst into flames.
In case anybody else who is struggling with the same thing ever ends up stumbling across this in the future, I seem to have finally managed to successfully tackle this problem. I finally got more pre-cut adhesive in, and yes: at least in my case, stacking two of them on top of each other has done the trick. (It's not easy lining them up in order to apply them to each other, either...I can tell you that much.)
I don't know if maybe all the adhesive that is out on the market is not "genuine" Sony and so not built to the same spec (maybe the genuine article is much thicker?), or if my particular phone's manufacturing tolerances are just outside the norm (either the battery is sticking up farther than it should, or the edges of the frame are sunk in further than they should be), or what. But using 2 stacked on top of each other instead of 1 seems to be the perfect thickness, allowing for the back glass to remain flush with the plastic frame's edges while also remaining perfectly flat.
I can tell you that at least on my phone, this is still not enough to ensure a tight water seal (pressure sensor doesn't change with increasing outside pressure). But it's hard to know if that's due to the way the back is applied, or some other issue elsewhere that's entirely unrelated.
ARGH. Nope. It lasted a lot longer than previous attempts, but now the upper-left corner, where the camera lens is, is already starting to lift off again.
This is *such* a stupid design.
Try using B7000 industrial glue from Aliexpress or other vendors, it can still be unglued by heat if repairs are needed, but should stay glued better and longer then these precut adhesives which are low in quality...
Thanks for your thread. I can feel your frustration! I'm having problems with the flash LED making weird green shadows in photos (like here https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/camera-flash-bleed.3368004/) I was thinking about opening the back cover to try and fix this and maybe install a new battery and a new camera lens while I'm at it. But now I'm afraid to open it up. I am pretty sure that a this point all "original" replacement parts that are available are fake. Should I ever find the courage: Is the back cover and camera lens made from one piece or must they be replaced separately?
Try to get the OEM adhesive strips and battery.
3m makes all sorts of industrial double sided strips. Get the right thickness if you go that route.