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Hi to all the people here.
I am very sorry to bother you with my problem, but I am already at the end of my power, and have decided that the only thing I can do is to let all the people around the world know about it.
How this is connected with Athena. It is, very strongly. Athena and ERA network with it's BlueConnect 3G connection is my last resort to live and work since 18 may 2008. How?
So listen:
I live in a suburb of Warsaw, Poland, exactly 23 km from the very center of the city. Warsaw is the capitol city of Poland, Europe (I am very sarcastic now).
I run my office at my home, I write and sell software for hotels, but also am admin for some company networks and run my own, small, commercial VoIP network. Unfortunately, my home and office is, or rather was connected to the world with two phone lines with Internet connection from TPSA, the biggest telco in Poland having practically monopoly on our market. TPSA belongs to France Telecom, and have introduced rules and ways of dealing with customers which were imposed by France Telecom.
Now, on 18 of may the pole, on which my telephone cables hanged, felled down. The pole was standing by the road on a field belonging to some farmer exactly in the middle of the entrance from the road to this field. The pole was put there without permission of the owner of the field, many years ago. The owner of this field was asking TPSA to move the pole 2 meters aside to let him use the entrance to his property, but TPSA never even answered to him. This is how they behave here.
When the pole felt down (it was hit by some car during the winter, but never repaired), the owner of the field came and said that he is not going to let the people from TPSA to enter on his field as long as TPSA agrees to move the pole 2 meters aside (still on his property). They said that TPSA can do that, but only if the owner of the field, were the pole was standing, will pay for it. Obviously he didn’t agree, so they just have gone and left the pole lying down. But after two days, while the owner was not there, they came and put the new pole on in the same place as the old one. They have connected all the cables from main road, but did not connect cables from my small road which was also connected to this pole.
And since that time nothing more happened. I am trying to contact TPSA and make them to do something, but the only option for customers with problems, to contact TPSA, they have left in Poland is to dial they call center were very nice lady says (in short words) “ just fu… of”. Exactly they are saying that “the customer” (meaning me) “does not let the TPSA people to enter on the field and repair the pole and because of that the repair is so called ‘difficult to fix’”.
This answer I received several times already, and when I told the lady that this is not true, and actually the pole is already repaired in spite of the protest of the owner of property, but only ma cables are not connected to it, she was surprised but nevertheless she still said as above.
There is no any office where I could go and complain, there is no any way I can make TPSA to fulfill my rights (there is a low that the maximum the complaints has to be fulfilled is 30 days) , but TPSA just does not care about that because they fill that they are untouchable, and it shows that they are right. There are state institutions here who should monitor and control the market, but they are so afraid that they do not even touch the subject. Why? Because TPSA is France Telecom.
The only think I can say is: fu…k TPSA and fu…k France Telecom.
Please be nice to me and do not shout on me. I just have to throw it out. This is actually the only thing, I can do. I am going to put this post to as many forums as I can, to at least make a small scratch on the face of those "European" institutions. They left me without any option to make living for already over a month. They did not even propose me to make a redirection of my office lines to my mobile. They did not even suggest that I could get a HSDAP device from Orange to have any Internet connection. I had to sign a contract with my mobile network (not orange, I will never ever go to them) for two years, to have any possibility to receive my emails. This is not the way the telco company should behave in Europe or anywhere else. They have a contract not with John Smiths but with a company. Cutting any company from the connection with the world for a month is just killing this company, and specially the one, which deals with networks and software. And name of my company is TKSoftware. Every month they print an invoice for this name. And they dare to ask the farmer to pay for moving their pole from his road. They never paid him for having this pole on his property, on the first place.
Again: to hell with Polish TPSA and France Telecom, which accepts such a behavior.
Edit June 24:
I am calling TPSA call center (number 9330-for business) twice a week. They keep giving me a new complaint number and that's all. No other changes.
I decided that I should be fair to France Telecom and sent this post as an email to their mail address for international business. This address is officially shown on their pages. Guess what. I got a mail rejection info from my mail server saying that it was blocked on FT server as a spam on basis of spamming countries classification. It means that FR is an owner of biggest telco in Poland having over 70% of national market and they put Poland on spammers list on their mail account for international business. Awesome arrogance.
I would very happily accept some help.
1. If anybody could suggest forums dealing with telecomunication, were I could place my post, I would be glad.
2. If someone not from Poland, possibly from France (hope France is not on their spammers list) could resend my post to them, please let me know. I will send copy of my mail which was refused. It has small introduction just saying that the following will be posted to forums around the world.
By the way, I have received invoices for previous month. They have charged me full price. No deduction for not having any connection since 18 Maj. When I called them and complained, they said, I should send an official complain on the paper with standard post. The phone company is not going to make business using the phone. They probably know how useless it is if it is a phone line from TPSA.
Unfortunately that is how big organizations work is in their interest to show invulnerability in the face of anyone having a claim against them, they only play nice if is lest costly to do so and wile they are bound to the law in democratic countries, business are not democratic institutions, there is not a single multinational that work in a democratic manner,no one of them.
You should get in touch with your parliament local representative, communicate with the phone company by letter, so you have records and dates of your claim, take pictures and send your history to local and national newspapers, get in touch with the local consumer association and national consumer watchdog if that does not work, get in touch with other neighbours affected and build a court case together.
If nothing of that works, you and the other affected people in your street will have accumulate a sizeable quantity of documents, letters etc that can be used as evidence and you will start becoming an itch for the phone company so that they consider more worth to do something about your problem rather than do nothing, if only to get rid of your complains
I f none of this works you will have already collected enough solid evidence and are noticeable enough that you can take your case to the European institutions with enough weigh that they bother to take a look.
The problem is
Getting through this process is a lot of hassle, can take long time and is hard work, stressful and wile the telephone company may decide to sort your problem early in the process, also they may not, so you will have to go through the whole process.
And the longer it takes, the bigger amount of hours lost at work expend instead sending letters, bureaucracy, expending money to go from an office to another...the works
can you bother that much?...... exactly, that is way big companies got away with it, many people can't, do not have the meanings and/or the know how.
my advise, take your case as far as you can, it is your right, and when/if it becomes to anti economic,stressful whatever ...seek an alternative.
Good luck
Thanks for your advice and good word.
The problem is that the only alternative in my place is either cable from TPSA or mobile with 3G, which is not enough reliable to run an office.
I work in the office alone, so for sure I will not have enough time and money to go through all this process. That is way I have decided to post such posts in any possible forum I can get access to. I also have sent this post to France Telecom to let them know about the case. This is what I can do, and wait.
July 20 - No change
I have received info from my email server that it could not deliver my mail to address ([email protected]) because their server has a rule which says: all mail form Poland is treated as spam. How France Telecom can make business in Poland and not receiving mails from the country?
I have received answer from TPSA confirming that thay accept my complain and pay me back 1/30 of my previous payments per each day of service being down, but 2 months and almoast a half have passed and they nither repaired it nor payed me back.
I have received an answer for my complain from UKE (Polish main office for electronic communication) confirming that I am right with my complain but they have got an answer from TPSA that I will be paid as described in paragraf above and they are doing everything to repaire my line, so the UKE director (the one who answered) is closing the case.
Today I have no lines , no communication, my customers are going to others, am loosing my work, and all this in the middle of Europe in the year 2008.
Can anybody from France help me and send my email to France Telecom? if so please PM me and I will deliver it to be resend to FT.
Tadeusz said:
(..)
Today I have no lines , no communication, my customers are going to others, am loosing my work, and all this in the middle of Europe in the year 2008.
(...)
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We are in Europe, and the best thing to do is what latins are used to say. SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM ("If you want peace, prepare for war" )
Contact a good layer collect a STRONG documentation about the business you are losing, the france telecom faults, and prepare for a fight.
In ANY CASE start the complain, you are a company, and you are loosing your business.
Hi all,
The contracts of Hero seems rather expensive (£600+ over 18 months) for a phone that is worth £350-ish PAYG.
Unless I am mistaken? Please post the best deals you can find!
Thanks.
I paid ...
£97 for the phone, and a further ...
£30 a month for 600 mins calls, unlimited txts, unlimited internet (which translates to a fair usage policy of 500mb/month)
All on Orange Dolphin 30, 24 months contract
Probably way over-priced, but I was desperate and just walked into the Orange shop.
You can get it from t-mobile on an 18 month contract for 35 quid a month. phone is 'free' and you get cool black one (best colour IMO).
you get unlimited internet (which is actually unlimited) compared to most other carriers who will offer 500mb on a fair use policy. can't remember the calls and text allowance but its more then enough.
I believe it's 3GB actually with T-Mobile, which is A LOT more than the other networks here in the UK (as far as I know).
T-mobile is probably the best, but is still a lot of money. Their fair-use limit is 3Gb, Vodaphone and O2 is only 500mb which is stupid. O2 don't carry the Hero, but their iphones do come with true unlimited internet (but don't allow streaming video or audio, VoIP or tethering.)
If you want to save money, try www.moneysavingexpert.com and click through to their page on saving money on mobile phone contracts. It has links to the best serch engines for this kind of thing.
drspikes said:
T-mobile is probably the best, but is still a lot of money. Their fair-use limit is 3Gb, Vodaphone and O2 is only 500mb which is stupid.
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O2 isn't 500mb. They don't have a limit and i've never heard of anyone being contacted by them for downloading too much. I've downloaded 600mb+ for the last 2 months with o2 and had no problems.
I've had some massive usage months on O2 also and never heard a peep about it. The whole O2 internet experience is generally pretty good. None of the port blocking or (un)fair usage crap.
I was going to go with www.mobiles.co.uk - v good deals - but stuck with my Vodafone upgrade because I have more faith in their hardware, support and signal. That's worth an extra few quid to me.
Have friends who take out contracts with various third parties and have all sorts of problem. Not worth the hassle for the sake of saving a few squids.
SC
I pay £35 a month for my FlexT 35 contract, and my Hero was free. I was out of contract on FlexT before, but I was paying an additional £7.50 a month for web n'walk, and I now get the free G1/G2 data plan so in essence it is cheaper for me now.
Regards,
Dave
Ive got my hero on vodaphone, £25 a month, 500mb internet, 500 texts and 100 minutes. Phone cost 70. Bought at carphone warehouse, Its an alright deal, would like to be on t mobile for more internet, but no signal for them where i live...
hero pay-as-u-go
wywywywy said:
Hi all,
The contracts of Hero seems rather expensive (£600+ over 18 months) for a phone that is worth £350-ish PAYG.
Unless I am mistaken? Please post the best deals you can find!
Thanks.
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well £600 for 18 months is not bad at all had set free unlimted high speed data. The had set will set you back around £400 and no support from net works usually then theres the bloody hellish cost of data and calls on pay as you go so the t-mobile contract is about the best out there. And service from them is nearly allways amazing
I got mine on Orange Racoon 40 Websave over 12 months
Its just over £40 per month, including Internet, phone cost about £50, but I used QuidCo to get £50 cashback.
Vince
vadonald said:
I got mine on Orange Racoon 40 Websave over 12 months
Its just over £40 per month, including Internet, phone cost about £50, but I used QuidCo to get £50 cashback.
Vince
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same - 12 months £32/month + £5 for internet. £50 phone but £50 cashback. Winner and I can upgrade change in 12 months.
I got mine from www.buymobilephones.net. which is one of mobile news awards commended online retailers.
My tarrif is on t-mobile 18-months with 700 mins, unlimited texts, 3GB data allowance and the phone was free.
I am paying £34.25 directly to t-mobile but have got 11 months half price line rental which is equivalent to £188 cashback. This is made through redemptions throughout the length of the contract which is similar to what carphonewarehouse used to do.
Link: http://www.buymobilephones.net/mobi...hs)-Free-Web-n-Walk-Plus-for-G-Series/1008540
I had scoured the internet for HTC Hero and T-Mobile G2 Touch contracts as I badly wanted this phone and found no better deal than this.
EDIT: 3 Months free insurance as well.
Haha burgess_boy you post sounds like an advert But thanks! This is the sort of deals I am looking for. I used Buymobilephones a few years ago so I haven't got a problem using them again. Theres £20 on Quidco as well... nice.
@locutus-of-borg - The reason I think the Hero on contract is expensive is because I have had a lot of WinMo phones of similar value to the Hero, yet the contracts (inc internet) were cheaper - usually £25 for 18 months.
wywywywy said:
@locutus-of-borg - The reason I think the Hero on contract is expensive is because I have had a lot of WinMo phones of similar value to the Hero, yet the contracts (inc internet) were cheaper - usually £25 for 18 months.
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If you look at the TMo website, you have to pay £50->£60 per month to get a free WinMo phone.
Regards,
Dave
I posted this to HUKD:
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/467978/htc-hero-orange-12-months-600min-50/
Works out at £350 for the 12 months, assuming the £50 QuidCo kicks in (mine tracked pretty quickly). However, you'd need to buy Orange Internet @£7.50 / month, too.
CombinedEffort said:
I posted this to HUKD:
http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/467978/htc-hero-orange-12-months-600min-50/
Works out at £350 for the 12 months, assuming the £50 QuidCo kicks in (mine tracked pretty quickly). However, you'd need to buy Orange Internet @£7.50 / month, too.
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I thought it seemed about the cheapest way to get this phone.
My QuidCo has changed from Tracked to Validated - so its looking good so far
Vince
The german TV magazine "Monitor" has already uncovered many corporate scandals. They have once again on the Locust "Nokia" reported here has already shown its true colors in Germany.
After the company in the city Bochum took over € 60 million subsidy to support the work there, soon they have closed the factory and refunded only under pressure of about 30 million €.
Reason: too expensive jobs (2500 - $/2000 € average earnings), too far from the new markets.
They moved to Romania, where they roundabout also conceded 30 million subsidy for the creation of jobs, especially because a new infrastructure was created by the subsidies. After three years some time ago the factory was closed, no money refunded.
Reason: too expensive work (300 $/ 250 € average earnings), too far from the new markets. The merit was too small even for Romanian conditions, working conditions and times much harder than in Germany.
They moved to India, conceded there an estimated 100 million subsidy for the creation of jobs. Then again, relocating is planned.
Reason: jobs and working conditions in Vietnam are still cheaper (in India: 160 $/ 125 € average earnings). The achievement was even by Indian standards not sufficient to feed the family, working conditions and times are harder than in Romania.
Read carefully in advance to find out where your devices are manufactured and under what conditions. There is even a famous company from Cupertino who enjoy making similar headlines. Because cash investors and managers get (including tax) billions and rub their bellies and their staff can produce under unhealthy and inhumane conditions your smartphone.
Also HTC is in conflict, because the displays were produced by a company, where children shall work without earning money. Questions about these problems were not answered. HTC says, they don´t know something about the produce conditions.
A boycott of these companies would be decent, rather than ride on the "hip" wave, if they don´t change their politic.
For an emerging company that starts in the new markets, there are such companies guidance how it should (not) run, if they want to be successful.
Against Forgetting
As much as I agree that inhuman working conditions are not good, everyone does it. Let's take an example: I start a company and I want to make smartphones, but I want them to be made in good, healthy, human conditions. That would easily cost me double the production price compared to other manufacturers. As a result, my model to compete with the Lumia 800 would cost around €800 to €1000 (compared to the €400-500 for a Lumia). What would happen? Nobody would buy it, because they get almost the same for half the price if they buy the Nokia phone.
There's only one thing driving this situations: money. As long as there are no international laws to prohibit this sorts of activity, it will continue, just because otherwise your products cannot be competitive in the market.
On the other hand, if such laws would come, you would have a lot of unsatisfied customers, because we would have to pay a lot more, for the same device. Then again, it would be very important that the law is international.
It's all about the money...
_Madmatt said:
As much as I agree that inhuman working conditions are not good, everyone does it. Let's take an example: I start a company and I want to make smartphones, but I want them to be made in good, healthy, human conditions. That would easily cost me double the production price compared to other manufacturers. As a result, my model to compete with the Lumia 800 would cost around €800 to €1000 (compared to the €400-500 for a Lumia). What would happen? Nobody would buy it, because they get almost the same for half the price if they buy the Nokia phone.
There's only one thing driving this situations: money. As long as there are no international laws to prohibit this sorts of activity, it will continue, just because otherwise your products cannot be competitive in the market.
On the other hand, if such laws would come, you would have a lot of unsatisfied customers, because we would have to pay a lot more, for the same device. Then again, it would be very important that the law is international.
It's all about the money...
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I don't think that a HTC-phone would cost €1000 if they made sure that their displays wasn't produced by children without salary.
juukas said:
I don't think that a HTC-phone would cost €1000 if they made sure that their displays wasn't produced by children without salary.
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True. But it's pointloss to only do it for the display. You should do it for ever single part in the phone, and don't you worry, costs will go up dramatically.
well i live abroad the google play store launch countries and i did research if i can get it for a shop online for a sensible price ,to my dissapointment i found some redicilus sky high prices from uk online shops, for example the nexus 10 16gb was set at the price of 382gbp including vat, excluding shipping fees ,while i dont mind to pay a little more than 319gbp i found their pricing unreasonable i mean they are wholesale suppliers and can get it for a lot cheaper than 319 why so much profit?
i wish i had someone to uk to order it from my behalf but as it does seem i must wait for a long time...
382.00 GBP = 611.123 USD. You're right, that's quite a big hike.
Here in Australia there is a $70 premium on the unit itself plus shipping, so in the end it will probably cost me $100 MORE to order the tablet directly from Google (and the AUD is still above the USB). I really really hate regional pricing, it's unfortunate that Google has become one of the companies to do it. Hopefully they get questioned about it (The government is currently investigating the "Australia tax" that we get for hardware and software).
I am a developer from India and i'm looking to start selling a new app in the coming months. But my doubt lies with this whole sales tax (or VAT or whatever) collecting problem.
The official doc containing these policies can be found here : https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/138000?hl=en
My question is : Do I need to keep aside a certain amount of our sales earnings as tax (based on the tax rate in that country)? If so how do I pay it back to the tax authorities in those countries.
One more doubt was regarding the registration of our app dev company in India. Do I really need to register my company in order to SELL apps on Play store? Will it interfere with any of the tax policies if I don't register my company here?
I would prefer to implement In-app purchases rather than actually sell the app. How will the above given tax policy affect my tax collection then?
Thanks a Lot
Gautam Padirooted said:
I am a developer from India and i'm looking to start selling a new app in the coming months. But my doubt lies with this whole sales tax (or VAT or whatever) collecting problem.
The official doc containing these policies can be found here : https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/138000?hl=en
My question is : Do I need to keep aside a certain amount of our sales earnings as tax (based on the tax rate in that country)? If so how do I pay it back to the tax authorities in those countries.
One more doubt was regarding the registration of our app dev company in India. Do I really need to register my company in order to SELL apps on Play store? Will it interfere with any of the tax policies if I don't register my company here?
I would prefer to implement In-app purchases rather than actually sell the app. How will the above given tax policy affect my tax collection then?
Thanks a Lot
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There is a company called Lotaris that would takes away the risk and administrative burden by becoming the Merchant of Record and tracking, administering and remitting the taxes to all the relevant tax authorities on your behalf. I'm not affiliated with them and I do not use their services so I cannot help you much here. But if you are interested, you can read the detail here: www.lotaris.com/android and scroll down to the "Google Play Store Tax Service" section.
---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------
But I believe there should there is a threshold for VAT and GST before you have to collect and pay the tax so perhaps if your IAP volume is still low you should not worry about it yet? Please correct me if i'm wrong. I'm also wondering what the other developer here do about those taxes.
east_62687 said:
There is a company called Lotaris that would takes away the risk and administrative burden by becoming the Merchant of Record and tracking, administering and remitting the taxes to all the relevant tax authorities on your behalf. I'm not affiliated with them and I do not use their services so I cannot help you much here. But if you are interested, you can read the detail here: www.lotaris.com/android and scroll down to the "Google Play Store Tax Service" section.
---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------
But I believe there should there is a threshold for VAT and GST before you have to collect and pay the tax so perhaps if your IAP volume is still low you should not worry about it yet? Please correct me if i'm wrong. I'm also wondering what the other developer here do about those taxes.
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Thanks a lot.
I will definitely inbox you or something when i find a solution for this.
You don't need to deduct sales tax for foreign countries unless your country has a treaty with the buyer's company. In practice, this means that any EU merchant needs to withhold sales tax for any buyer in the EU, or in the US, for certain buyers in the US (depends on state).
For me (EU based), this means everyone has 21% (EU) or 0% sales tax rate. I don't think this applies to India at all, so except for the domestic buyers, you don't charge any sales tax.
Disclaimer: call your tax department for the final answer.
Booink said:
You don't need to deduct sales tax for foreign countries unless your country has a treaty with the buyer's company. In practice, this means that any EU merchant needs to withhold sales tax for any buyer in the EU, or in the US, for certain buyers in the US (depends on state).
For me (EU based), this means everyone has 21% (EU) or 0% sales tax rate. I don't think this applies to India at all, so except for the domestic buyers, you don't charge any sales tax.
Disclaimer: call your tax department for the final answer.
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Do you have to create invoices/bills for your tax authorities? If you do, do you issue them to Google or to the individual end users?
Here we just report the revenue totals to the tax authorities, but it's up to us to prove the numbers are correct. For that, we have the detailed purchase log from wallet, it includes a separate column for tax, and per purchase, an unique id.
That's good enough for our accountant. It's not like we're a restaurant where you can under report to evade tax, Google pays out to the cent exact.
Next year the situation is going to change though, direct to consumer will be charged at the local tax rate. With a ton of countries in EU, Google decided to handle VAT themselves and issue payments with tax withheld, so all Google Play revenue will be taxed at 0% effectively.
Booink said:
Next year the situation is going to change though, direct to consumer will be charged at the local tax rate. With a ton of countries in EU, Google decided to handle VAT themselves and issue payments with tax withheld, so all Google Play revenue will be taxed at 0% effectively.
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I have just noticed tax deductions in my Play/Wallet merchant account.
My income is thus dropping about 20%. This sucks !
Wrote a post explaining in the general forum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/general/dammit-google-dammit-eu-vat-policies-t3003275
What do you all think ?