Hello all
I am observing something that angers me a bit and I see as kind of an issue with the camera and the processing my S23 Ultra does to each shot, more specifically to those taken in 50 and 200mp modes.
I have noticed a considerable oversaturation, increase in warmer tones and maybe even adding of contrast. Whenever there is a scenario where I have oranges or reds, the phone adds more to those and they blow up. I noticed it the other day while shooting a sunset.
The attached pictures are from the standard app, but the same happens in Pro and Expert RAW. The 1st pic is at 12 mp. There is some saturation added, but not too much. The 2nd one is from the 50mp where it goes crazy. After I take the shot it looks good, but it shows that it is processing it and than - crap happens. Same is with the 200 mode.
I spoke with a Samsung rep, I have reset the camera settings, restarted the phone and I am on the newest version, having updated a few hours ago.
Do you see the same behaviour with your S23 Ultras or is it just me? And is there something I can do? I have disabled and disabled the Picture color mode in Dev Options with no effect.
Thank you a lot in advance for helping out!
Korowin said:
Hello all
I am observing something that angers me a bit and I see as kind of an issue with the camera and the processing my S23 Ultra does to each shot, more specifically to those taken in 50 and 200mp modes.
I have noticed a considerable oversaturation, increase in warmer tones and maybe even adding of contrast. Whenever there is a scenario where I have oranges or reds, the phone adds more to those and they blow up. I noticed it the other day while shooting a sunset.
The attached pictures are from the standard app, but the same happens in Pro and Expert RAW. The 1st pic is at 12 mp. There is some saturation added, but not too much. The 2nd one is from the 50mp where it goes crazy. After I take the shot it looks good, but it shows that it is processing it and than - crap happens. Same is with the 200 mode.
I spoke with a Samsung rep, I have reset the camera settings, restarted the phone and I am on the newest version, having updated a few hours ago.
Do you see the same behaviour with your S23 Ultras or is it just me? And is there something I can do? I have disabled and disabled the Picture color mode in Dev Options with no effect.
Thank you a lot in advance for helping out!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to disable "scene optimizer". It could be the issue.
Klaudas said:
Try to disable "scene optimizer". It could be the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That should certainly be done but it does not help a ton. The most significant thing I have found is to always shoot in pro mode and take saturation down 2-3 clicks, click the right most icon on the top of the screen to get access to that setting. As mentioned in the gcam thread I also take down shadows and highlights 2-3 clicks and turn contrast up 2-3 clicks. That tends to expand the dynamic range just enough to make a difference. Make sure to use the additional camera settings to tell the cam to always remember your last mode and filter settings.
And about the image in the OP - getting this type of scene right in "auto everything" mode is tough even for DSLR cameras costing thousands of dollars. You have to futz a bit with the white balance and exposure to get something pleasing on practically any camera. shooting into the sun requires good understanding of what the sensor is seeing, and almost always takes significant post processing to make it look natural
GroovyGeek said:
That should certainly be done but it does not help a ton. The most significant thing I have found is to always shoot in pro mode and take saturation down 2-3 clicks, click the right most icon on the top of the screen to get access to that setting. As mentioned in the gcam thread I also take down shadows and highlights 2-3 clicks and turn contrast up 2-3 clicks. That tends to expand the dynamic range just enough to make a difference. Make sure to use the additional camera settings to tell the cam to always remember your last mode and filter settings.
And about the image in the OP - getting this type of scene right in "auto everything" mode is tough even for DSLR cameras costing thousands of dollars. You have to futz a bit with the white balance and exposure to get something pleasing on practically any camera. shooting into the sun requires good understanding of what the sensor is seeing, and almost always takes significant post processing to make it look natural
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you both. Scene Optimizer didn't help at all and i will try that saturation thing, though it tells me it is not available for RAW mode
Still it is good to hear, that I am not the only one, so it is not a HW issue, but a software one. Right?
I am not expecting for the phone to replace my Nikon 6 II, but use it, when I am taking a walk and shoot something nice and not need to carry the camera and all the additional things with it
Stock app on s23u screen look ok. Because the screen is washed out with too much blue and green.
But when Ive edited the picture on my benq 4k screen 99% color accuracy, wow, indeed over saturated !
I will follow the Gcam thread closely, I think a member is very close to have a config file on point.
Itnis actually a really good point. I javent thought that i also have Vivid mode on the phone and things might look quite different on other devices.
I assume you also have the same issue as I do with the phone oversaturating shots?
Korowin said:
I assume you also have the same issue as I do with the phone oversaturating shots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably report it with a photo/video evidence and detailed description in Samsung members application.
Klaudas said:
Probably report it with a photo/video evidence and detailed description in Samsung members application.
Already did. I aslo spoke with a rep from Samsun US, but I am not sure if he will log it
Does it mean though that you dont have such an issue with your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I have but I like colors on my photos
Well not when the Oranges in your shot are trying to get out of the screen and have a life of their own
Don't use Expert RAW, as best as I can tell it has fewer capabilities that PRO mode in the stock app. Once in pro mode click the icon in the top right of the screen (looks like two concentric circles connected by spokes). Then along the bottom there are a bunch of cryptic icons. When you click on each some verbiage will appear explaining what they are. First one is contrast, second highlights, third shadows, fourth saturation, fifth tint. Take down saturation, highlights and shadows 2-3 clicks and bring contrast up the same amount and see what you think.
Other settings to adjust in tandem: from the modes panel pull down Pro mode to the modes strip at the bottom; under Advanced Picture options change storage mode to either RAW or RAW+JPEG if you want to futz with things in Photoshop; and most importantly under Settings to Keep make sure that camera mode and filters are checked.
Korowin said:
Hello all
I am observing something that angers me a bit and I see as kind of an issue with the camera and the processing my S23 Ultra does to each shot, more specifically to those taken in 50 and 200mp modes.
I have noticed a considerable oversaturation, increase in warmer tones and maybe even adding of contrast. Whenever there is a scenario where I have oranges or reds, the phone adds more to those and they blow up. I noticed it the other day while shooting a sunset.
The attached pictures are from the standard app, but the same happens in Pro and Expert RAW. The 1st pic is at 12 mp. There is some saturation added, but not too much. The 2nd one is from the 50mp where it goes crazy. After I take the shot it looks good, but it shows that it is processing it and than - crap happens. Same is with the 200 mode.
I spoke with a Samsung rep, I have reset the camera settings, restarted the phone and I am on the newest version, having updated a few hours ago.
Do you see the same behavior with your S23 Ultras or is it just me? And is there something I can do? I have disabled and disabled the Picture color mode in Dev Options with no effect.
Thank you a lot in advance for helping out!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I don't have my S23 Ultra yet and don't know how you got yours so fast. I'm still waiting and I ordered mine on the 16th, day before they were to be released.
That said, all high end phones and my Nikon Camera have settings that affect that, for an example the "VIVID" setting in my Nikon would cause the saturation problem with your photos and can be adjusted.
Also mid to high end Samsung TVs have that too. In the showrooms they're all set to VIVID or something similar to make the picture POP. Samsung phones probably comes that way as well.
So read your manual and find settings for saturation and adjust to your liking.
Thank you, William. To add to it, I actually got mine the next day, the 2nd from my local Samsung store. I guess it depends per country, but we just got the upgrade from 256 to 512 as a benefit and nothing else.
I have taken some shots the past day, having turned off scene optimization and HDR and making sure that I am looking at the RAW shot, not the jpeg and it seems better.
Your Nikon camera, mine including, has a similar option, but it affects the jpeg shot only and not the RAW, where you can do whatever you like. I am kind of expecting the same with the phones RAW shots.
Still when looking at the jpeg, when I have set it up to take both, the jpeg seems worse, while the RAW is ok. I guess it will take some playing with it and it became better and I thank all that spared time to reply to me. The phone is just amazing. Even 3 weeks after I got it, I still can stop wondering how big of an upgrade it is for me and how much I like it
Cheers!
Korowin said:
Thank you, William. To add to it, I actually got mine the next day, the 2nd from my local Samsung store. I guess it depends per country, but we just got the upgrade from 256 to 512 as a benefit and nothing else.
I have taken some shots the past day, having turned off scene optimization and HDR and making sure that I am looking at the RAW shot, not the jpeg and it seems better.
Your Nikon camera, mine including, has a similar option, but it affects the jpeg shot only and not the RAW, where you can do whatever you like. I am kind of expecting the same with the phones RAW shots.
Still when looking at the jpeg, when I have set it up to take both, the jpeg seems worse, while the RAW is ok. I guess it will take some playing with it and it became better and I thank all that spared time to reply to me. The phone is just amazing. Even 3 weeks after I got it, I still can stop wondering how big of an upgrade it is for me and how much I like it
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got a great deal with my S23 Ultra:
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I ordered this phone for the photography features as I was surprised how good my former S21+ was... I started leaving my Nikons home too much. LOL But these camera phones will never be able to shoot BIF that I like to do. Anyways I'm a semi-pro and here is my website if you care to look.
https://moskovita-photography.com/
william58 said:
I got a great deal with my S23 Ultra:
View attachment 5847523I ordered this phone for the photography features as I was surprised how good my former S21+ was... I started leaving my Nikons home too much. LOL But these camera phones will never be able to shoot BIF that I like to do. Anyways I'm a semi-pro and here is my website if you care to look.
https://moskovita-photography.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have quite a lot of amazing shots there, mate. I urge you not to stop taking your Nikon with you . I know it can be quite a lot and when I decide to go full out, my backpack is close to 15 kilos, but oh, well. It is worth it when you take that amazing shot
The phone is quite impressive for a phone camera, but it is still not close to the real deal. The difference is sensor size does matter a lot.
Here are some of mine then too
Vasil Andreev Photography
Vasil Andreev Photography, София, България. 1,548 likes · 62 talking about this. Landscape, Wildlife and Macro Photography
www.facebook.com
Korowin said:
you have quite a lot of amazing shots there, mate. I urge you not to stop taking your Nikon with you . I know it can be quite a lot and when I decide to go full out, my backpack is close to 15 kilos, but oh, well. It is worth it when you take that amazing shot
The phone is quite impressive for a phone camera, but it is still not close to the real deal. The difference is sensor size does matter a lot.
Here are some of mine then too
Vasil Andreev Photography
Vasil Andreev Photography, София, България. 1,548 likes · 62 talking about this. Landscape, Wildlife and Macro Photography
www.facebook.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah... indeed you do have some great photos on FB.
Here is my older website with 40 years worth of photos
http://www.moskovita-photography.com/stock_photography.htm
william58 said:
Ah... indeed you do have some great photos on FB.
Here is my older website with 40 years worth of photos
http://www.moskovita-photography.com/stock_photography.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome. I am still browsing and I love it. I am still new. Got the Nikon a year ago, had no clue what is going on, and still pushing through it. It is quite a lot of fun, having in mind I hated taking pictures before.
And I kind of like it, that this phone gives me the opportunity to dig into how it is working and what it does to get even more out of it.
I found that using my note9 for photos they came out exactly as what I see with my eyes. The 23 ultra threw a bunch of blue into the sky and made things much more vibrant than what it really looks like. When comparing the iPhone and s23 yes you can see pros and cons but no one really can see how enhanced the photos are. I can't find a way to make the pictures look less exaggerated. I don't think we should have to resort to using pro settings every time. Has anyone foud a way to correct the photos? Debating on returning back to the note
Master255 said:
I recommend just switching to S22. It has no such problems and everything works automatically. With him you do not need to be a professional to just take a photo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. Makes sens. Ditch the batter battery, go for exinos, leave the better and flatter display, the otherwise perfect performance for me, the better ram and storage, etc. I can also get a Nokia with a flash life.
Having in mind I own a semi pro camera, this is a solid advice.
Cheers!
Master255 said:
The battery in the s22 is exactly the same, the s22 also has snapdragon, the screen in the s23 is greener displays less details and has fewer colors compared to the s22, the RAM is exactly the same, the drive too. As you can see the camera is so professional in the s23 that ordinary users can not use it. So you don't lose anything by switching to the s22!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The things you are listing are not the same. I will get exinos cuz i am in the EU. The display is more energy efficient and i dont see the color stuff you are listing. It is a matter of set up.
The s23 ram is 5x, which means newer and faster. The storage is 4.0, which also means newer and faster, and more efficient
There is more in the s23U than the spec sheet tells in comparison to s22U.
Related
scroll down to see my post with updated pics with the new tricks!!
so one thing i noticed is that the camera doesn't light up the flash to focus when you have the flash on like most other phones do (the S3 is one)
this makes low light shots 10x worse on the DNA than the S3 for example. If there was a way to make the camera flash while focusing so it can actually get that thing in focus in the dark, then i believe low light pictures would come out much better.
i've tried Camera JB+ but it's the same as the stock...wonder if theres a cmaera app out there that uses the flash while focusing? any thoughts?
here's two pics:
http://imgur.com/a/Bb5ju
the first is the S3. the second is the DNA. since when you focus with the S3, the flash comes on, it was easily able to focus and get a better shot. on the DNA, it was blindly focusing on whatever, despite the fact the screen was black since there was no light in the room.
you can also notice how soft the DNA seems...which is the post-processing "auto enhance" crap that HTC forced us to use on this camera. on my Rezound, i always turned that off because it looked awful, and now they're not giving us a chance to.
I'm very interested in the answer to this, as I think that low-light shots with flash are absolute garbage on the DNA. I love everything about the phone except for that. I think even my old Blunderbolt did better.
earthrocker said:
so one thing i noticed is that the camera doesn't light up the flash to focus when you have the flash on like most other phones do (the S3 is one)
this makes low light shots 10x worse on the DNA than the S3 for example. If there was a way to make the camera flash while focusing so it can actually get that thing in focus in the dark, then i believe low light pictures would come out much better.
i've tried Camera JB+ but it's the same as the stock...wonder if theres a cmaera app out there that uses the flash while focusing? any thoughts?
here's two pics:
http://imgur.com/a/Bb5ju
the first is the S3. the second is the DNA. since when you focus with the S3, the flash comes on, it was easily able to focus and get a better shot. on the DNA, it was blindly focusing on whatever, despite the fact the screen was black since there was no light in the room.
you can also notice how soft the DNA seems...which is the post-processing "auto enhance" crap that HTC forced us to use on this camera. on my Rezound, i always turned that off because it looked awful, and now they're not giving us a chance to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
odesskiy said:
I'm very interested in the answer to this, as I think that low-light shots with flash are absolute garbage on the DNA. I love everything about the phone except for that. I think even my old Blunderbolt did better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the big problem here is Auto ISO. do me a favor, turn the ISO to 200, and then try to take a low-light photo with flash. It may be very hard to focus on exactly where you want, but i guarantee there will be MUCH less noise. the ISO over-compensates, and at auto, its very grainy. i took pitch black shots last night at iso 200 and 400 with flash on, and to my surprise there wasn't much noise.
also, turn your sharpness up +1. this helps compensate for HTC's built in auto-enhance, which tends to "blur" the background out to try to get rid of noise..the rezound had this too, and i always had it off because it looks terrible. unfortunately, on the DNA, you can't turn it off yet.
I know it's not the solution you were looking for, but on my Rezound if I were taking very low light shots I'd turn on my flashlight app first, so the flash would be on permanently. The phone would then both focus with and take the photo with the flash on.
Until such time as a solution is found, feel free to try my hassle of a work-around haha
xxfallacyxx said:
I know it's not the solution you were looking for, but on my Rezound if I were taking very low light shots I'd turn on my flashlight app first, so the flash would be on permanently. The phone would then both focus with and take the photo with the flash on.
Until such time as a solution is found, feel free to try my hassle of a work-around haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey thanks for the tip! what app did you use to do it? that would be great, but unfortunately, the flashlight shuts off the second i enter the camera app :\
It might just be part of the ROM I'm on, but I use the flashlight toggle from the quick-settings pull down menu. If that's the case, then I apologize for getting your hopes up haha.
ahh dang! yeah, tiny flashlihgt doesn't let me keep it on when going into the camera app
earthrocker said:
the big problem here is Auto ISO. do me a favor, turn the ISO to 200, and then try to take a low-light photo with flash. It may be very hard to focus on exactly where you want, but i guarantee there will be MUCH less noise. the ISO over-compensates, and at auto, its very grainy. i took pitch black shots last night at iso 200 and 400 with flash on, and to my surprise there wasn't much noise.
also, turn your sharpness up +1. this helps compensate for HTC's built in auto-enhance, which tends to "blur" the background out to try to get rid of noise..the rezound had this too, and i always had it off because it looks terrible. unfortunately, on the DNA, you can't turn it off yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and change white balance to flourescent, this will make photo not yellowish.
Sweet! I'm gonna try this tonight at home. I've been trying to take pictures of my Xmas tree, which is really beautiful and photos were coming out horrid. Too bad you can't save all these settings to some sort of a preset to be enabled quickly for low-light shots
guys, I've figured out the secret to low light shots! the pic I took looks identical to the gs3 now, from what I can tell on my dna. check it out!
set your iso to 200...always use 200 for least noise possible. put sharpness up + 1. then, the secret here, jack exposure up ALL THE WAY! bam! great night shots with flash that even focus decently too. your screen will be black bevsuseThe iso is so low, but take the pic and you'll see!
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Sent from my HTC Droid DNA using Tapatalk 2
Holy crap! That totally worked! Much, much better results! Now we need some sort of a settings switcher for the camera
Check the contrast
Hey all, this is my first post and I know that I'm a noob - glad I got that out of the way.
As I read these posts and looked at the settings on my DNA, I found that by defult HTC sets their contrast WAY too high - it actually makes the pictures look darker. So I suggest that you play around with the contrast. I lowered it all the way down and my scenes look brighter and cleaner.
Yes, ISO 200 and 400 work best. Also, if you want to make your images looks 'artsy,' the camera app has built in filters.
Well, that's all I have for you all.
Later.
xeroatticus said:
Hey all, this is my first post and I know that I'm a noob - glad I got that out of the way.
As I read these posts and looked at the settings on my DNA, I found that by defult HTC sets their contrast WAY too high - it actually makes the pictures look darker. So I suggest that you play around with the contrast. I lowered it all the way down and my scenes look brighter and cleaner.
Yes, ISO 200 and 400 work best. Also, if you want to make your images looks 'artsy,' the camera app has built in filters.
Well, that's all I have for you all.
Later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, thanks for the contribution! i'm going to give the contrast a shot now. i never really played that much around with that, just ISO and exposure. thanks!
ok so here's a small contrast comparison:
the first picture is contrast -1
the second picture is stock contrast
which looks better to you?
http://imgur.com/a/Jjplk
earthrocker said:
ok so here's a small contrast comparison:
the first picture is contrast -1
the second picture is stock contrast
which looks better to you?
http://imgur.com/a/Jjplk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tonight i'm going to try some night shots again, wtih the same liquor cabinet pic, but make the contrast -1 and -2 and throw them up here.
Great thread and info guys. Always looking to make phone camera pics the best possible...
Some of my own tests
Hey, I like the first image: the one that has stock contrast.
I will also be making some tests, I will post them soon.
HDR is also a great option under well lit conditions. It will give the the greatest range.
xeroatticus said:
Hey, I like the first image: the one that has stock contrast.
I will also be making some tests, I will post them soon.
HDR is also a great option under well lit conditions. It will give the the greatest range.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to be honest, i never really knew what HDR meant or did lol sometimes it looks great, soemtimes terrible
xeroatticus said:
Hey, I like the first image: the one that has stock contrast.
I will also be making some tests, I will post them soon.
HDR is also a great option under well lit conditions. It will give the the greatest range.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
btw the first pic is the -1 contrast..second is stock..
Very interesting thread!
Hey Guys,
I got my Note about 2 weeks ago and have noticed that the camera and pictures are unusually grainy/noisy and the auto focus is subpar which results in blurry pictures. I have messed with the ISO settings changing it to 100 and 200.. which seems to help some, but its still noticeable as well as the settings dont save. I have tried 3rd party apps as well, still the problem persists. I've also compared my camera and photos to a buddy's Sprint Note 2 and his are far superior. My next step is to go to Verizon, but i just wanted to see if anyone else was having issues. I have heard that it could probably be the Drivers and that it might be fixed with an update, hopefully so, because of now, im highly disappointed.
any input or advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Josh
That doesn't sound right, I get great pics from mine.
Obviously they are not as good as my EOS 1D Canon DSLR but they are amazing for a camera phone IMHO.
Here is a shot I took in a very dimly lit room where I wasn't even sure the pics would come out:
http://s361.beta.photobucket.com/user/jmorton10_photo/media/Camera-ZOOM_zpsbafd9ff2.jpg.html
I took over 100 shots and they all came out great. I printed an 8"x10" pic from this and nobody can believe it's from my phone.
I have used Camera ZoomFX or Camera FV-5 (to save RAW images) in my last 3-4 phones.
it's definitely not right.
to get even a decent picture, i have to manually set the ISO to 100 or 200, then focus (because the auto focus is terrible as well) and then if i move even the slightest, the picture comes out blurry.
Moose1988 said:
it's definitely not right.
to get even a decent picture, i have to manually set the ISO to 100 or 200, then focus (because the auto focus is terrible as well) and then if i move even the slightest, the picture comes out blurry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have anti shake on?
Like most phones I find pics pretty bad if im not in bright light...or using flash..
And manually setting the iso at 100 in dark conditions is obviously gonna blur..youre better off using the flash and turning the exposure down a bit
bendystrawboy said:
You have anti shake on?
Like most phones I find pics pretty bad if im not in bright light...or using flash..
And manually setting the iso at 100 in dark conditions is obviously gonna blur..youre better off using the flash and turning the exposure down a bit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well when setting the ISO to lower levels, Anti Shake is greyed out.
and everything in low light is gonna blur, yeah.. but im talking about all the time. regardless of light. I can get somewhat better pictures when I adjust the settings, but, that is somewhat time consuming when wanting to take a quick picture, especially since it doesnt save the settings I choose.
I am having the same problem. No solution yet.
Is your camera lense dirty? Wipe it with a microfiber cloth or something.
I'm having problems with blurry pictures as well. Seems like the camera is not "fast" enough trying to capture kids who move around while you're trying to take a picture. I've got it set to single shot, highest resolution, auto iso and auto exposure and still get some noisy pics and blurry faces. Not sure what it is....
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
gime_time said:
I am having the same problem. No solution yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe an update will help. Here's to hoping
nnnnr14 said:
Is your camera lense dirty? Wipe it with a microfiber cloth or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I make sure its clean everytime. I thought that might be it but no. Its more of a grain.. like its the software or a driver issue
1dirtypanda said:
I'm having problems with blurry pictures as well. Seems like the camera is not "fast" enough trying to capture kids who move around while you're trying to take a picture. I've got it set to single shot, highest resolution, auto iso and auto exposure and still get some noisy pics and blurry faces. Not sure what it is....
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah exactly. I have the same exact issues.
Could it be a Verizon Note issue?
I just did some testing, seems anti shake adds an enormous amount of noise to images, as does auto contrast.
AOSP Camera (Camera JB+, stock settings, no flash)
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Touchwiz Camera: AS On
Touchwiz camera: AS off
edit: links should be right now
tdrussell said:
I just did some testing, seems anti shake adds an enormous amount of noise to images, as does auto contrast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never use either of those settings, but I'm definitely surprised that as ruins the image like that.
---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 PM ----------
1dirtypanda said:
I'm having problems with blurry pictures as well. Seems like the camera is not "fast" enough trying to capture kids who move around while you're trying to take a picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, no big surprise there.
Some real digital cameras are going to have that problem..
I don't think its the anti shake as I have mine turned off. I have my flash set to off but maybe because the room I'm in isn't bright enough so it's pumping up the iso to capture the shot and thus its grainier..
But I've still notice that it's hard to get a good picture of moving subjects like kids oe dogs as it doesn't seem to focus on the right place or the focus point moves to easily.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
1dirtypanda said:
But I've still notice that it's hard to get a good picture of moving subjects like kids oe dogs as it doesn't seem to focus on the right place or the focus point moves to easily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are some of the main reasons people buy DSLRs. NO little dc is going to be fast enough for any kind of action shots.
I have done pro photography for years. When I want to take any kind of action (especially in lower light like you typically find inside your house), I grab my DSLR with a fast lens. That camera will shoot 8 frames per second, all in perfect focus, stops all action and will do it easily in lower light conditions.
The camera phone however works great if you give it half a chance. If you are taking a posed shot (like the one I posted where the girls were not moving) and have enough light (use the flash if necessary) then the phone and its tiny little lens and sensor will give very decent results.
I have been playing with the camera a ton in the last couple days using this app:
http://www.camerafv5.com/
The more I practice with it, the more impressed I am with this device.
If you understand basic photography, FV-5 gives you tons of ways to very quickly/easily make a fast settings change with one fast click to change things like the auto focus point, white balance setting etc to give really outstanding results within the limitations of the actual hardware.
Posters talk about an update like that will magically cure why they can't take a decent picture. No update is going to fix blurry pics when the cause of that is user error (and reading some of these posts it is obvious to me that is the case).
Posters are expecting results that are way beyond the capabilities of a device that is a phone first and also happens to also take snapshots. Expecting it to capture perfectly focused, sharp images of your kid or dog running around the yard is ridiculous. That is the job of a DSLR, even some of the better dedicated DCs will struggle with those kind of shots.
There are two basic settings that apply to any picture taken, F stop (how much light the lens lets in) and shutter speed (how long the shutter stays open while snapping the picture). Both these settings are adjustable on the better quality digital cameras. The faster the shutter speed, the better it is for stopping action. If you shoot at say 1/1000 of a second, you can shoot a clear pic of a race car. On the other hand, 1/15 of a second is so slow that even a slight twitch on the photographers part will result in a blurry image.
With the phone cameras, you don't have the luxury of altering these settings much (if there is any adjustment at all). With the tiny lens of the N2 (or ANY camera phone) you cannot alter the F stop setting at all, it is what's called a fixed aperature and is not adjustable. That only leaves the shutter speed to change to get the correct exposure for any particular shot.
Using Camera FV-5, you can get a small amount of manual control to make that shutter speed faster (better to stop movement) but it doesn't help all that much because if you pick a really fast/short shutter speed the image will usually come out way too dark as it is not letting in enough light to properly expose the image. With a good quality DC, you would open up the F stop more to compensate for this, but you can't do that with the fixed aperature phone camera lens (which is so tiny it doesn't let in much light to begin with)
Camera FV-5 gives you more control than the stock camera app which gives you no control al all, but the tiny lens/sensor etc can only do just so much. I have simplified a lot of this info to make it easier to understand, but the same basic principles apply to any camera all the way back to film cameras.
To take better pics with the N2, try to...
1: hold the camera as still as possible, brace it against something to help with this if possible
2: provide as much light as possible. Either add more ambient light or use the flash (or both)
3: don't expect results that equal a good quality digital camera, the N2 works great for basically posed snapshots etc. If you're trying to shhot your kids Varsity Basketball league or your 2 year old chasing the dog around the back yard get yourself a basic DSLR.
Well for me... I do know how to use a camera.. I've set all the settings, I know basic photography. I know its a phone camera, but my thunderbolt took better pictures than this. To me it seems like a phone issue... NOT a user issue. Thanks for the lesson though. Appreciate it. :good:
Moose1988 said:
Well for me... I do know how to use a camera.. I've set all the settings, I know basic photography. I know its a phone camera, but my thunderbolt took better pictures than this. To me it seems like a phone issue... NOT a user issue. Thanks for the lesson though. Appreciate it. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So maybe it is a phone issue, maybe yours has defective hardware??
I'm hoping so. It really seems more grainy than it should be. I still need to go to Verizon and check another Note 2.
jmorton10 said:
I never use either of those settings, but I'm definitely surprised that as ruins the image like that.
---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 PM ----------
LOL, no big surprise there.
Some real digital cameras are going to have that problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not talking about kids running around but rather them sitting still long a full 2-3s so I can snap a good picture without them moving their head. I don't have problems with my gnex camera at all in the same location. I seem to be having similar focus or grainy images that the op is seeing.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
The problem is that your last phone was an htc. Im coming from a Rezound and that camera was way better than this one. Never really even mess with the settings on the Rezound and the pictures always came out crisp and detailed.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium
ripster said:
The problem is that your last phone was an htc. Im coming from a Rezound and that camera was way better than this one. Never really even mess with the settings on the Rezound and the pictures always came out crisp and detailed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not trying to be argumentative here at all, but I don't agree with this.
I still have two Rezounds and I rarely used the cameras because even though I kept reading how awesome the Rezound camera was I was never overly impressed with mine. I recently compared identical shots from one of the Rezounds with my N2. I left both on full auto so it was a fair comparison.
All the shots from the N2 came out perfect while the shots from the Rezound varied considerably. Some of the Rezound shots where too dark and others missed the focus point.
I really think some of you guys may have defective N2s and should go back to verizon and compare yours to another unit to compare results. My N2 is the first phone camera that works so well for me that I don't feel the need to carry an extra small P&S camera with me along with the phone.
I took over 100 shots of a Christmas party for my 12 year old daughters soccer team. I sent them to all the parents of the girls and they are thrilled with the shots. I took them inside where the light was not that great and most other phone cameras would have produced disastrous results. The shots are all perfectly exposed and it only missed the AF point on a couple shots.
The parents have all seen me shooting with my Canon EOS 1D DSLR over the years and naturally assumed that was what I was using to take the shots. When I told them the shots all came from my phone they where astounded. I printed a few 8"x10" shots for some of the parents and they can't believe it was possible to get a shot of that quality from a phone.
One of them told me yesterday they had framed the shot and hung it in their family room. Now, granted I have been doing photography professionally for years and I will always take better pictures in most situations without even thinking about it but I don't think that's the case here. I had my wife take some shots with the note to make sure that it wasn't just me. Her results where not as good as mine, but they where just fine as far as the camera performance.
I've had the phone for a couple of days now ant the battery life is stellar but the camera is such a disappointment. Compared with the S22 Ultra it lets in less light and the pictures are overall darker. Same goes for low light pictures, the S22 Ultra is consistently brighter in all scenarios. It reminds me of the difference between my iPhone 13Pro and my S22 Ultra last year the former always capturing more light. To be honest I was expecting the opposite to be true with all the reviewers clamoring about the S23 Ultra's better low life performance and camera overall. I'm really not impressed so far.
Anyone else still in possession of both phones? What's your experience been like? Any suggestions? Did I miss something in the setting? So many questions
Clear cam data, try a hard reboot and clear system cache. Try in safe mode.
Carefully go through -all- the cam settings and options.
Return it if you don't like it for a cash refund.
Are you using the 12 MP default option instead of 200 MP? The 12 MP is said to give the best results on colors and contrast when shooting in low light.
"Binning pixels like this increases their effective size, allowing them to gather more light and detail. So the ISOCELL HP2 can bin every four pixels to effectively make them 1.2μm in size and produce 50-megapixel images, or bin 16 for even larger 2.4μm pixels and 12.5-megapixel images."
blackhawk said:
Clear cam data, try a hard reboot and clear system cache. Try in safe mode.
Carefully go through -all- the cam settings and options.
Return it if you don't like it for a cash refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done. No dice. The camera still lets in less light on the S23U. In the settings I noticed that Camera assistant is missing. Must be a One UI 5.1 thing. Do you also have the S22 and S23 Ultra? Is that the reason for your suggestions? Are you seeing different results?
I'm upgrading from S22U (SnapDragon) to S23U and the few comparison shots I've taken I found that the S23U does capture slightly more detail, but there's not much difference at all. Remember this is the initial firmware for the phone though so the camera performance should hopefully receive some updates over time.
p.dixon0 said:
I'm upgrading from S22U (SnapDragon) to S23U and the few comparison shots I've taken I found that the S23U does capture slightly more detail, but there's not much difference at all. Remember this is the initial firmware for the phone though so the camera performance should hopefully receive some updates over time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For sure. I totally get that. The thing is all the reviewers said that the s23u captured more light and that has yet to materialize for me. They were using the same software. To your point, the software should get better but I feel as though this is a hardware thing. But I'm no expert.
Paul_Deemer said:
Are you using the 12 MP default option instead of 200 MP? The 12 MP is said to give the best results on colors and contrast when shooting in low light.
"Binning pixels like this increases their effective size, allowing them to gather more light and detail. So the ISOCELL HP2 can bin every four pixels to effectively make them 1.2μm in size and produce 50-megapixel images, or bin 16 for even larger 2.4μm pixels and 12.5-megapixel images."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If by 12MP you mean 3:4 absolutely. Didn't change anything.
mrnovanova said:
If by 12MP you mean 3:4 absolutely. Didn't change anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have my phone yet but there is a setting somewhere that you can choose between 200 MP, 50 MP or 12 MP in settings.
mrnovanova said:
Done. No dice. The camera still lets in less light on the S23U. In the settings I noticed that Camera assistant is missing. Must be a One UI 5.1 thing. Do you also have the S22 and S23 Ultra? Is that the reason for your suggestions? Are you seeing different results?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try shooting raws, at least 3 f/stops more exposure and WB correction. Downside is the post processing effort/time required.
The issue may simply be the firmware instruction set. Samsung is notorious for dialing things in after the release. I'm still happily running N10+'s on Pie and Q. I demand a dual drive capable device. I'm not pleased at all by the newer Android versions from Gookill either.
The dead zone between pixels on such a small sensor with such a huge pixel count is concerning as is the individual pixel microlense quality. Even 20mp is pushing it. Canon full frame sensors are maxed out at about 26mp.
Regardless of the camera learning it's capabilities, limitations and shooting effectively within those boundaries is what grabs keepers.
I haven't had issues so far with the camera outputting dark images. I've tried some shots inside at night (with main cam), shots outside, shots with main 12, 50 and 200mp modes, 3x, 10x. So far I'm pretty satisfied and also noticed a huge improvement in processing especially for 3x and 10x outside which, on my s21 ultra, I was always doing those shots with gcam. Now I could actually consider using stock, though I need to test way more extensively to know for sure.
Might help if you provide us with some pictures of the issue you're having, maybe side by side with your s22 if you still have it.
Hello, please update camera software-color are
oversaturated and unreal ( for example Red color
at most), reduce processing and sharpening. My
Samsung Note 10plus has better results! Thanks
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Is it the camera or the display?
Check/compare images on a properly color calibrated monitor... yeah, it's a can of worms.
PhilMorin said:
I haven't had issues so far with the camera outputting dark images. I've tried some shots inside at night (with main cam), shots outside, shots with main 12, 50 and 200mp modes, 3x, 10x. So far I'm pretty satisfied and also noticed a huge improvement in processing especially for 3x and 10x outside which, on my s21 ultra, I was always doing those shots with gcam. Now I could actually consider using stock, though I need to test way more extensively to know for sure.
Might help if you provide us with some pictures of the issue you're having, maybe side by side with your s22 if you still have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try tomorrow
PhilMorin said:
iI'll t.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mrnovanova said:
I'll try tomorrow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In low light hold the phone as still as possible.
Use a nearby fixed object to brace it or yourself on when possible.
Using the spen as a remote shutter release will help too.
mrnovanova said:
I'll try tomorrow! This app is so wonky for me. I'll try tomorrow and post the pics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
blackhawk said:
In low light hold the phone as still as possible.
Use a nearby fixed object to brace it or yourself on when possible.
Using the spen as a remote shutter release will help too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got a Benro Tripod with a Phone attachment mounted on top. Gonna try that when I get the Ultra Monday doing some dark photos and using the pen as remote shutter release. Will also do same with the S22U before sending it back to Samsung.
PhilMorin said:
I haven't had issues so far with the camera outputting dark images. I've tried some shots inside at night (with main cam), shots outside, shots with main 12, 50 and 200mp modes, 3x, 10x. So far I'm pretty satisfied and also noticed a huge improvement in processing especially for 3x and 10x outside which, on my s21 ultra, I was always doing those shots with gcam. Now I could actually consider using stock, though I need to test way more extensively to know for sure.
Might help if you provide us with some pictures of the issue you're having, maybe side by side with your s22 if you still have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay I think this worked. I'll let you guess which is which.
Edit: @blackhawk was spot on. They were both from the S22u. I have such a hard time with the app. I re-uploaded the correct pics. Left S23u Right S22u.
Paul_Deemer said:
I got a Benro Tripod with a Phone attachment mounted on top. Gonna try that when I get the Ultra Monday doing some dark photos and using the pen as remote shutter release. Will also do same with the S22U before sending it back to Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I loathe tripods. Learned to improvise and shoot in low light with my Canon Pro cam 15 years ago.
I'll use anything at any height or angle I can reach as a brace; with practice you can land one of a kind keepers no tripod can grab.
Smart phones are poor shooting platforms; light weight so there's little stabilizing inertia and lousy handholds. Poor shutter release and controls. However they lend themselves to bracing well enough. In a case you don't have to worry much about what you brace it on...
The traditional elbows in, wide staggered foot stance, hold your breath works too. Shooting technique counts...
mrnovanova said:
Okay I think this worked. I'll let you guess which is which.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Poor example; different shooting heights skews the results. The AF lock on point is also different so the bottle's print is out of focus in the one shot. Light metering and colors look near identical in both.
blackhawk said:
I loathe tripods. Learned to improvise and shoot in low light with my Canon Pro cam 15 years ago.
I'll use anything at any height or angle I can reach as a brace; with practice you can land one of a kind keepers no tripod can grab.
Smart phones are poor shooting platforms; light weight so there's little stabilizing inertia and lousy handholds. Poor shutter release and controls. However they lend themselves to bracing well enough. In a case you don't have to worry much about what you brace it on...
The traditional elbows in, wide staggered foot stance, hold your breath works too. Shooting technique counts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might work for Photos but not very well for videos especially when you are zooming in 20x. Here's is an example where I have S22U on a tripod and zoom in on a waterfall from across the canyon and pan up and down. No way you gonna do it that smoothly holding it in your hands even braced. So for videos I love the tripod. It's the very lightest one they make and perfect for cell phones or light cameras. Change YouTube resolution to 1080p for best viewing.
I am coming from a S20 FE 5G and upgraded to the S23 Ultra for camera(s) as I take many pictures. One of the most common pictures I take is of my cat and I noticed that the pictures I am getting from the S20FE look better. The fur looks more detailed out of the S20FE as well and his fur color is more accurate. My first impression is the photos coming from the primary sensor out of the S23 Ultra are kinda a disappointment. They seem over processed. I know there is a Pro RAW mode, but I would expect the default jpg processing to be as good as or better than the S20FE.
These are both shot in auto mode, no added filters.
S20 FE 5G Sample A Sample B
S23 Ultra Sample A Sample B
ihaveworms said:
I am coming from a S20 FE 5G and upgraded to the S23 Ultra for camera(s) as I take many pictures. One of the most common pictures I take is of my cat and I noticed that the pictures I am getting from the S20FE look better. The fur looks more detailed out of the S20FE as well and his fur color is more accurate. My first impression is the photos coming from the primary sensor out of the S23 Ultra are kinda a disappointment. They seem over processed. I know there is a Pro RAW mode, but I would expect the default jpg processing to be as good as or better than the S20FE.
These are both shot in auto mode, no added filters.
S20 FE 5G Sample A Sample B
S23 Ultra Sample A Sample B
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Install goodlock/camera assistant.
Turn on soft pic medium
Turn off scene optimizer
Or use GCAM
dazed1 said:
Install goodlock/camera assistant.
Turn on soft pic medium
Turn off scene optimizer
Or use GCAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes on 1 and 2
Hard no on 3
After installing several versions of GCAM and doing side by side shots I have concluded that there is absolutely nothing you can get with GCAM that you can't get with stock.
Part of the problem is that if you set your screen to vivid the images will looks positively horrendous, particularly saturated blue colors. You need to tweek the white balance as suggested in another recent thread, which heavily desaturates blues and somewhat desaturates reds. You can also adjust saturation, shadows, etc additionally in pro mode.
Have you tried the high efficiency pictures option? It saves pictures in HEIF instead of JPEG, maybe it'll help?
GroovyGeek said:
Yes on 1 and 2
Hard no on 3
After installing several versions of GCAM and doing side by side shots I have concluded that there is absolutely nothing you can get with GCAM that you can't get with stock.
Part of the problem is that if you set your screen to vivid the images will looks positively horrendous, particularly saturated blue colors. You need to tweek the white balance as suggested in another recent thread, which heavily desaturates blues and somewhat desaturates reds. You can also adjust saturation, shadows, etc additionally in pro mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go back some posts/pageand fibd my gcam vs stock post
ihaveworms said:
I am coming from a S20 FE 5G and upgraded to the S23 Ultra for camera(s) as I take many pictures. One of the most common pictures I take is of my cat and I noticed that the pictures I am getting from the S20FE look better. The fur looks more detailed out of the S20FE as well and his fur color is more accurate. My first impression is the photos coming from the primary sensor out of the S23 Ultra are kinda a disappointment. They seem over processed. I know there is a Pro RAW mode, but I would expect the default jpg processing to be as good as or better than the S20FE.
These are both shot in auto mode, no added filters.
S20 FE 5G Sample A Sample B
S23 Ultra Sample A Sample B
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The focus should be done to the same point, is not the case for Samples A, and you should share what is the complete camera configuration including the Camera Assistant.
dazed1 said:
Go back some posts/pageand fibd my gcam vs stock post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any specific one? There are multiple threads on this topic. This one?
Image quality not great
Took pictures of red roses I bought for my wife. They are pink. My old Note 10 reproduce color perfectly. Not sure how much I am loving this new phone. Anyone else notice this?
forum.xda-developers.com
As mentioned I have found it possible to reproduce the "more natural" GCAM results by tweaking down saturation, shadows, and brightness a few clicks in pro mode. Don't see a reason to futz with GCAM at the moment but open to changing my mind.
Speaking of which, why did Samsung decide to brighten the shadows when you move the slider to the left? Literally every other piece of software brightens shadows when you slide to the right.
dazed1 said:
Go back some posts/pageand fibd my gcam vs stock post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did another test today with both GCAM and LCM and I still can't find a reason to use anything other than tweaked stock. The images below are of the corner of my couch, the blanket on the right is neutral gray, the couch itself is typical dark leather color with no orange overtones. First image is tuned stock, second is GCAM, third is LCM. Stock is BY FAR the most muted and faithful color reproduction.
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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GroovyGeek said:
Did another test today with both GCAM and LCM and I still can't find a reason to use anything other than tweaked stock. The images below are of the corner of my couch, the blanket on the right is neutral gray, the couch itself is typical dark leather color with no orange overtones. First image is tuned stock, second is GCAM, third is LCM. Stock is BY FAR the most muted and faithful color reproduction.
View attachment 5844563
View attachment 5844565
View attachment 5844567
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen dude, colors are a preference thing and they can be tuned. Artifacts, noise, details. sharpness, textures are much harder to get from the stock camera phone, even with the tweaks that i suggested.
There is not a single stock phone that can beat gcam in overall output, sure the phone at stock can have a bit more accurate colors, a bit better white balance, and so on, maybe even main video or portrait shots, but thats it, everything else will favor GCAM.
Share you settings from the xml/apk you use, and tell me what do you want to improve, i will help you fix it.
dazed1 said:
Artifacts, noise, details. sharpness, textures are much harder to get from the stock camera phone, even with the tweaks that i suggested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its ok if you enjoy twaeking GCAM but regarding what you wrote about stock, that is not true and I demostrated it in a picture I posted before from S22U, GCAM use is a none sense with this phone.
Share in this post your best XML for GCAM you have and I will do a test between the two.
citytrader said:
Its ok if you enjoy twaeking GCAM but regarding what you wrote about stock, that is not true and I demostrated it in a picture I posted before from S22U, GCAM use is a none sense with this phone.
Share in this post your best XML for GCAM you have and I will do a test between the two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In low light hdr/high contrast scene the stock camera is very bad. Colors are preference and can be tweaked.
dazed1 said:
In low light hdr/high contrast scene the stock camera is very bad. Colors are preference and can be tweaked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You write a lot but I don't see you sharing the files for testing GCAM...
citytrader said:
You write a lot but I don't see you sharing the files for testing GCAM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Example, very low light scene
Let me guess, now you will claim the stock is good and better right?
Stock camera, 1/4 shutter speed, night mode, 5 sec (maximum exposure)
GCAM 1/3 shutter speed, night mode
This why GCAM is a none sense.
citytrader said:
This why GCAM is a none sense.
View attachment 5847265
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your picture is a great example of why GCAM has so much sense. First of all, looks more natural than the other three, but...
I took your comparison and just pushed the sharpness on the GCAM to the level of others and voila, it has more details than the other 3. You can sharpen them as much as you want, but the detail will not be there. Samsung is just applying so much sharpening, that as long as you are not looking at pictures on something better than the smartphone screen or not zooming, it can look fine. GCAM gives you flexibility, by far more natural look, and more details, but not pushing unnecessary sharpness to some crazy levels.
I'm playing with my S23 Ultra for 2 weeks now, and it can sometimes give good results in 50Mpix ExpertRAW, but GCAM is just more reliable. Every time I snap a picture it looks the same, with no halos, artifacts, etc. With the Stock app, it is not the case. Over processing is just ridiculous. And most annoying part is that it, unfortunately, happens in ExpertRAWs as well. On top of that, seems like the process is not being applied in the same way for each of the photo parts. Look at this comparison of the iPhone 14 PRO RAW 48 Mpix (left) and S23 Ultra ExpertRAW 50 Mpix (right).
Look at the center of the picture. For Samsung, the details of the wooden structure are gone. This part of the picture has very strong Noise Reduction applied. Looks just ugly. And then below that block and above, you have parts, that are being processed in another way round - over sharpened. For both pictures, sliders for noise reduction and sharpening are at a minimum. So this is the main reason for using GCAM and not stock software in Samsung.
That said, it is sad that Samsung cannot make processing better, because this sensor has so much potential!
ajarosz said:
Your picture is a great example of why GCAM has so much sense. First of all, looks more natural than the other three, but...
I took your comparison and just pushed the sharpness on the GCAM to the level of others and voila, it has more details than the other 3. You can sharpen them as much as you want, but the detail will not be there. Samsung is just applying so much sharpening, that as long as you are not looking at pictures on something better than the smartphone screen or not zooming, it can look fine. GCAM gives you flexibility, by far more natural look, and more details, but not pushing unnecessary sharpness to some crazy levels.
View attachment 5850289
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will do the test again because I didn't pay attention of the white part of the picture loosing details with PRO RAW, with GCAM there is an issue that you have and prevented me to sharpen the pictures, take a look at the irregularities that appears from GCAM, I don't know if that could be solved. (Horizontal lines and some kind of grids that are not present in the real picture)
Currently I agree with you with the stock cam, is a hit an miss in the results... we need a more refined firmware.
citytrader said:
I will do the test again because I didn't pay attention of the white part of the picture loosing details with PRO RAW, with GCAM there is an issue that you have and prevented me to sharpen the pictures, take a look at the irregularities that appears from GCAM, I don't know if that could be solved. (Horizontal lines and some kind of grids that are not present in the real picture)
View attachment 5851311
Currently I agree with you with the stock cam, is a hit an miss in the results... we need a more refined firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It Look like artefacts from resizing. For me it is miss for most of the time. If I do not resize the image it ok i woudl say, but only the. If light conditions are perfect, then 50 mix from expert raw is ok and can have more details than gcam. But if there is no enough light, then i was not able to produce anyrhing that is even close to results from gcam. Pictures from stock app and camera raws are very inconsistent. Like I can have picture where in some places I have oversharpened result, while just few pixel in any dirextion from there there is a spot with no details at all because of the noise reduction. I hope that samsung will do something about it. Here is a link to the example of what I am talking about: Post in thread 'Working GCAM for S23 Ultra' https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/working-gcam-for-s23-ultra.4550019/post-88226029
All this reminds me of S20 Ultra when the 108MP sensor was first introduced. Took more than 6 months to tune the software for it.
I'm bracing for the same bumpy ride here....the current images we are getting are beta quality.
Here is a simple test with a simple printed paper I did with my camera and the S23U, the situation of the camera is much worse than the S23 because of the ISO and because is using the complete frame in the shot, so you see complete edge to edge lens sharpness
M6 MKII: ISO 500 @ 22mm f/5.6, image occupy the entire frame to better check edge to edge sharpness, you can see edge to edge sharpness, its a pity greedy Canon discontinued this fantastic travel camera...
S23U: ISO 50 @ 50mpx, not possible to occupy the entire frame because of the distance it does not focus, so part of the frame is occupied and this could be an advantage to the S23U but it is not in practice because just moving a bit from the center it loses sharpness a lot and even worse detail because of the heavy noise correction.
Versions in REALRAW and PRO: EXPERTRAW pictures are much sharper than PRO... Come on Samsung, what are you doing?
I did not post the 12mpx shot because is not a fair comparison and in this phone having the 50mpx option who will shot in 12mpx when using the normal lens...
FRAMING USED FOR S23U
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The files are in the attachment for the size and you can make a comparison on your screen, is easy to see why a camera make a big difference, much better sharpness edge to edge, much better detail compare to the S23U because S23U apply heavy noise correction in its sensor and the quality of lens edge to edge of the S23U is by far really bad like any camera phone.
This is a very very simple comparison because to be fair we need to buy the target, even if I shoot with the phone when I don't have my camera, I prefer to do all my travel and home videos with the phone.
Why ISO 500 and not 100 it's native ISO?
The difference is even greater than shown here if so. This Canon lense? Pretty sharp as you can see on the interactive blur chart even on the edges at f/5.6, sweet. The Samsung can't match that...
blackhawk said:
Why ISO 500 and not 100 it's native ISO?
The difference is even greater than shown here if so. This Canon lense? Pretty sharp as you can see on the interactive blur chart even on the edges at f/5.6, sweet. The Samsung can't match that...
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Just wanted to do it at ISO 500 as worst case, at ISO 100 it will be even better.
I added more shots with a bigger target printed in laser to fill the frame of the S23U, the shot of M6mkII is at ISO 3200 (no noise reduction) and the 12mpx and 50mpx of S23U with EXPERTRAW, the lens of S23U are not able to resolve correctly 50Mpx moving a little out from the center, much worse in higher mpxs, so this camera at 200mpx is useless because of the lenses not able to resolve and the noisy sensor.
If you check the chart, at 50Mpx the lens resolves well in the center, moving a bit from the center aberrations start to appear.
At 12mpx the lens resolution is acceptable center to border, with much less aberrations compared to 50mpx but still we see the cheap glass used.
This is a nice test to do in any phone to understand if the phone brands are able to resolve the mpx they promote, in the case of Samsung is able to resolve 50mpx in the center only.
M6 was shoot at ISO 3200 without noise reduction and it destroys the S23U camera in any aspect and the difference is pretty big. (we didn't include color rendition here because the situation of S23U could be much worse)
The pictures in the attachment
CONCLUSION: if you want to do simple point and shoots with low quality glass and a sensor with noticeable noise reduction, use the phone.
Right there, that looks the smudging effect seen on the S23U. It's present on the N10+ at times as well... generally more widespread in the image though.
blackhawk said:
Right there, that looks the smudging effect seen on the S23U. It's present on the N10+ at times as well... generally more widespread in the image though.
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That could be caused by the noise reduction in the sensor because it has lot of noise, the pixel pitch of S23U is half of the size of the M6 sensor.
citytrader said:
That could be caused by the noise reduction in the sensor because it has lot of noise, the pixel pitch of S23U is half of the size of the M6 sensor.
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Odd it's just that one spot. Just saying... You start testing cams invariably it gets to be a pain rather than what it's suppose to be, a pleasure.
blackhawk said:
Odd it's just that one spot. Just saying... You start testing cams invariably it gets to be a pain rather than what it's suppose to be, a pleasure.
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Correct and for the pleasure I have the M6, a real pleasure... everyone that likes photography should try a mirrorless DSLR in any brand they like to see the difference.
You and some others have mentioned realraw. Is this Samsung expert raw that is branded with some other name in other countries? I search for a realraw apk and couldn't find any so assuming it is expert raw you did your tests with?
PhilMorin said:
You and some others have mentioned realraw. Is this Samsung expert raw that is branded with some other name in other countries? I search for a realraw apk and couldn't find any so assuming it is expert raw you did your tests with?
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Is my mistake, is EXPERTRAW not realraw, I corrected the original post.
For the people that want check sharpness and to do their own testing printing the chart, I will attach the PDF that is better printed in A3 or around that size.
It almost seems like some (very few) people are trying to replace their main camera with a cell phone camera.... lol....
joewoo said:
It almost seems like some (very few) people are trying to replace their main camera with a cell phone camera.... lol....
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Honestly, it really depends on your needs. The best camera is the one you have with you.
I have a Canon R6 with a 70-200mm and other lenses but I definitely don't have this on me all the time while I have this phone with me at all times and so I still want to get the best out of it, hence why I also use a mix of stock cam 12mp, stock 50mp and GCAM.
Knowing the strengths and limitations of each tool / mode is how you can get better result. For example, using 50mp mode I frame more than I need so I can then crop and avoid part of the edge softness. Still end up with a file that's more detailed than the 12mp. For everyday though gcam 12mp is good enough.
But when I went to shoot at a friend's wedding of course the phone is out of the question and I used the R6. But when travelling and hiking, I challenged myself to travel light (got tired of carrying heavy gear around all the time) and managed to get very good results that did some very fine prints for our home. Again, I'm not selling my travel pictures online etc. So having the top quality isn't always necessary. In the end for social media sharing and small prints at home you should usually be fine with phone pictures.
It really depends on the intended purpose of your pictures (or willingness to carry heavy gear around) so I don't think it's fair to say that one is better than the other. In terms of pure quality of course dslr will win but there are many other considerations to be had.
Everyone knows a professional camera is going to take better pictures than any cell phone camera. So what's the point of all this? Nobody is gonna lug their main camera around with them everywhere they go. But the S23U does take greaat pictures at 12 mpx and with telephoto 3x and 10x. It also makes phone calls, has social media, stream movies and plays games which is something your DSLR will never be able to do. Nobody here bought the phone thinking they were getting a DSLR quality camera. I don't really give two chits because the phone does what its been designed to do. If you were expecting a DSLR in a phone well sorry you are disappointed because no phone cameras are ever going to match the quality of $5000 DSLR and lenses.
Paul_Deemer said:
R in a phone well sorry you are disappointed because no phone cameras are ever going to match the quality of $5000 DSLR and lenses.
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I agree with the point of PhilMorin, you can buy a new camera expending usd 700 with a weight of less than 600grs and a quality far superior than any phone, if you buy an used camera you pay much less...
There are lot of places that compares phone cameras with DSLR...
citytrader said:
I agree with the point of PhilMorin, you can buy a new camera expending usd 700 with a weight of less than 600grs and a quality far superior than any phone, if you buy an used camera you pay much less...
There are lot of places that compares phone cameras with DSLR...
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The heavier pro cams are better shooters; better and more handholds, more weight means more inertia and helps keep the cam steady, better control layout/controls and view finder. Pro cams are a joy to shoot with and it's a press pass in itself
Doubles as a weapon when in hand especially with a 70-200 f/2.8 on it.
blackhawk said:
The heavier pro cams are better shooters; better and more handholds, more weight means more inertia and helps keep the cam steady, better control layout/controls and view finder. Pro cams are a joy to shoot with and it's a press pass in itself
Doubles as a weapon when in hand especially with a 70-200 f/2.8 on it.
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LOL! I'll try running before I start hammering at someone with that setup. Makes for quite an expensive weapon
PhilMorin said:
LOL! I'll try running before I start hammering at someone with that setup. Makes for quite an expensive weapon
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I've shot in Philly's bad sections. I hold it by the lens base next to my chest. Basically a 5# hammer. Rather slam it into someone's face than have it stolen. Jogging only works if you see them coming as they tend to be lazy
Had some bangers come up to me at a fair once. Turned out all they wanted to do is pose, that was interesting. Be friendly but be prepared...