I got in to rooting and flashing when I was on my Samsung Fascinate, it was the device I learned the ropes on. By the time I was ready to upgrade devices, I was already running ICS on my Fascinate. We all know the history of the S3 and it being a flagship device for Samsung......and there were countless ROM builds for it. One of the most stable team builds I've ever been on was AOKP. Coming up through versions of OTA builds, AOKP was always on top....IMO. There were other ROM's that opened different customizations, but in my eyes none were as solid and consistent as AOKP was. Then we all know the hybrid ROM's came about, based on several different builds. There is where I found Rootbox, to this day I don't think I'll ever find a more complete and stable ROM. Its too bad its dev dropped building, but good for him as he was finishing school.
After owning my Note 3 now since it hit the stores, I finally rooted and flashed about a month or better ago. I tried a few ROM's, wasn't impressed with anything.....then a friend recommended HyperDrive. I had been on Release 7 for about a month, and pretty damn happy. Recently I flashed to their Release 8, which is KitKat. Granted, I know development is still early on KK.....but I've just been overwhelmed with the errors and bugs. I am generally a patient person, but this "stable" release is far from my experience with the S3 ROM's. And I do take into consideration these are two very different devices, based on different builds of Android software also.
Am I being too critical? Should I just shut up and wait it out? Where is AOKP? Where are the other teams with their big builds? Are they beyond forums now, and strictly WikiRoot and Gooim? I don't even venture over there, so I may really be missing out all together. A quick glimpse at AOKP's site and I found Note3 nightlies for "Unified Note 3", no specific carrier. Is this for ALL devices Note 3? Am I getting too old for this stuff?
Someone pass me a beer. :laugh:
LXative said:
I got in to rooting and flashing when I was on my Samsung Fascinate, it was the device I learned the ropes on. By the time I was ready to upgrade devices, I was already running ICS on my Fascinate. We all know the history of the S3 and it being a flagship device for Samsung......and there were countless ROM builds for it. One of the most stable team builds I've ever been on was AOKP. Coming up through versions of OTA builds, AOKP was always on top....IMO. There were other ROM's that opened different customizations, but in my eyes none were as solid and consistent as AOKP was. Then we all know the hybrid ROM's came about, based on several different builds. There is where I found Rootbox, to this day I don't think I'll ever find a more complete and stable ROM. Its too bad its dev dropped building, but good for him as he was finishing school.
After owning my Note 3 now since it hit the stores, I finally rooted and flashed about a month or better ago. I tried a few ROM's, wasn't impressed with anything.....then a friend recommended HyperDrive. I had been on Release 7 for about a month, and pretty damn happy. Recently I flashed to their Release 8, which is KitKat. Granted, I know development is still early on KK.....but I've just been overwhelmed with the errors and bugs. I am generally a patient person, but this "stable" release is far from my experience with the S3 ROM's. And I do take into consideration these are two very different devices, based on different builds of Android software also.
Am I being too critical? Should I just shut up and wait it out? Where is AOKP? Where are the other teams with their big builds? Are they beyond forums now, and strictly WikiRoot and Gooim? I don't even venture over there, so I may really be missing out all together. A quick glimpse at AOKP's site and I found Note3 nightlies for "Unified Note 3", no specific carrier. Is this for ALL devices Note 3? Am I getting too old for this stuff?
Someone pass me a beer. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a locked boot loader we're currently stuck with TW based ROMs. If you're having that many bugs on HyperDrive give a different ROM a try. I use a few different ones and do not have any issues at all.
Only the developer editions can run AOSP roms...retail devices are stuck with touch wiz because safestrap recvovery limits you to using the stock kernel only. I feel your pain with TW KitKat NC2...it is pretty buggy. Hoping the NC4 update will fix some things. For the mean time I am chillaxin on Beans MJE B.6
I can't believe you just asked that!
Request denied: Imma gonna kick you!!
I came from a Droid RAZR (original) that used Safestrap with a locked bootloader, but it had tons of AOSP and AOKP roms. What makes the Note 3 different?
Sent from my SM-N900V using XDA Free mobile app
Retail Note 3 is locked to the stock kernel, aosp uses a diff one. I think others like Bionic can use kexec to boot which was what they were looking into on NC2 since kernel modules are enabled (and why they told everyone not to take the ota)
Thanks for the replies. I will admit I know how to get rooted and flash ROM's, but don't know a whole lot about the guts of the phone along with these limitations.
So in short, the retail carrier phones are all TouchWhiz forever? I am pulling that correctly out of these replies? Or is this something that some of the cell phone hacking geniuses that bring us this whole side of the cellular world, actually be able to overcome to allow us to run AOSP?
On an additional note, are all devices going to be like this from here on out? I had no clue about a "developer edition" phone, how does one acquire such a device?
Man, I need to catch up on my lingo.
LXative said:
Thanks for the replies. I will admit I know how to get rooted and flash ROM's, but don't know a whole lot about the guts of the phone along with these limitations.
So in short, the retail carrier phones are all TouchWhiz forever? I am pulling that correctly out of these replies? Or is this something that some of the cell phone hacking geniuses that bring us this whole side of the cellular world, actually be able to overcome to allow us to run AOSP?
On an additional note, are all devices going to be like this from here on out? I had no clue about a "developer edition" phone, how does one acquire such a device?
Man, I need to catch up on my lingo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you are use to no longer exists...Samsung is locking the device so tight these days, root will more then likely be a thing of the past. The VZW S5 has a 12k bounty just for root and nobody has cracked it. The developer editions are going to be the only way to root and flash roms. The downfall is you have to buy the device outright, no warranty, and samsung nor verizon provides updates for the DE. You would think no big deal, I will rely on Devs for updates, but there is a catch.
These days a lot of stuff is hidden in the bootloader partition that allows certain features of the device to work correctly. So If I want to upgrade from MJE to NC2 I need to flash a modified firmware pack. The problem is with DE is we can not flash that firmware pack without locking the bootloader. So we are then left with using a modfified stock kernel which allows us to use kitkat but we have to deal with certain bugs.
On a side note we can run AOSP all day with no issues being it uses its own kernel, but there is very few devs left working on Verizon devices. CM11 is all we have. I believe we can run some T-mobile roms with Apn edits.
The retail edition relies on Root privilidges for safe strap recovery to work. However since kernel modules are disabled on the latest update, kexec or any side load program that installs kernels will not work. Therfore Touchwiz is what all the retail devices can run.
It is really a no win situation at this point with Samsung devices on Verizon. Both Retail and DE have their own limitations.
I will probably continue to purchase Dev edition phones since I buy my device outright to keep unlimited. Also I am guranteed root capability to at the very least and I can mod my own stock rom. And if the retail gets a update down the road that is worthy of taking, I can choose to take it and lock the device. However as slow as verizon releases updates, I will most likely move on to another device before the update has any relevancy.
Your best bet is to move to T-mobile if you want a lot of development...I would but I am not sold on their service around my area.
Awesome, thanks for the break down.......it really helped me understand things a lot better.
Seems like I might just be best to flash back to stock and be happy as possible with the customization features Apex gives me. I REALLY don't understand the logic in locking the devs......no matter what they do, in the least someone is going to try to break into it.......especially if it is a popular device. It wouldn't be so bad on the other hand, if they would give us just some of the customization's that you can find in just about every custom ROM out there. You know they are paying attention to what the developers do on forums like this......but I personally really don't see them doing anything about it.
FYI, I too wanted to keep my data plan so I bought my Note 3 out right.....had no real clue about the dev edition though. From the sounds of it, I'm pretty discouraged about the current time and future of customization......especially for those of us who bought our phones out right. Pisses me off.
I've considered T-Mobile too, and it works fine everywhere but where I work. Being I get a stipend, I can't have a cell phone while I am at work.....that doesn't work. Or else I'd be long gone.
droidstyle said:
Only the developer editions can run AOSP roms...retail devices are stuck with touch wiz because safestrap recvovery limits you to using the stock kernel only. I feel your pain with TW KitKat NC2...it is pretty buggy. Hoping the NC4 update will fix some things. For the mean time I am chillaxin on Beans MJE B.6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. No need to go away from Beans mje build until I buy a new home...
Actually I was under the impression the leak allowed for an unsigned kernel and there was work on an AOSP rom for the vzw Note 3?
Morkai Almandragon said:
Actually I was under the impression the leak allowed for an unsigned kernel and there was work on an AOSP rom for the vzw Note 3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The leak allows a "possible" exploit of our bootloader that would allow kernel modification. I'm sure smart people are trying. But what I've heard is that even the smarties will find this hard to do. Plus we don't even know if it will work.
I guarantee you if someone finds a way, it will be supwr noticable where to find that info on the forum.
<Note3>
Not trying to derail the thread, but it sounds like a couple of you bought devices outright "to keep unlimited data." Despite what vzw customer service and tech support may say, that is not true at all. I and many others with unlimited got a subsidized N3 from vzw. If you have a non-unlimited line on your account due for an upgrade, use it to get subsidized N3 on same capped data plan. Activate N3 and make calls on it. Turn off both phones. Go online and transfer lines on myverizon. Change N3 to your unlimited phone number. Take SIM card out of your current unlimited device and put in N3, turn on and call the device activation number just like you had purchased a phone outright from third party. There's another step in there about lUk8dia753 reactivating the original phone back on its original capped line, but I forget when you do it. Google knows. The point is Verizon will subsidize new devices that end up on unlimited data plans. In a circuitous way, it's legally required by the conditions of their purchase of the block c spectrum - the open device rule.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
badchorizo said:
Not trying to derail the thread, but it sounds like a couple of you bought devices outright "to keep unlimited data." Despite what vzw customer service and tech support may say, that is not true at all. I and many others with unlimited got a subsidized N3 from vzw. If you have a non-unlimited line on your account due for an upgrade, use it to get subsidized N3 on same capped data plan. Activate N3 and make calls on it. Turn off both phones. Go online and transfer lines on myverizon. Change N3 to your unlimited phone number. Take SIM card out of your current unlimited device and put in N3, turn on and call the device activation number just like you had purchased a phone outright from third party. There's another step in there about lUk8dia753 reactivating the original phone back on its original capped line, but I forget when you do it. Google knows. The point is Verizon will subsidize new devices that end up on unlimited data plans. In a circuitous way, it's legally required by the conditions of their purchase of the block c spectrum - the open device rule.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True but that does not work when the other lines on your account already have used their upgrade and are out 2yrs before they can upgrade. So from July 2012- July 2014, I have to buy my device outright to keep unlimited.
Being someone who is trying to learn about rooting etc. I have found this thread very useful. To me if I choose to root a phone the biggest benefits I see would be getting rid of bloat and the UI. I love "plain" Android and Nexus devices, I like things simple, uncluttered, as I believe the way Google intends for it to be.
So if I understand this correctly at this point with a rooted Note3 I can not enjoy the benefits of running a stock JB or KK rom as it was straight from Google? Something about a locked bootloader is preventing these type of roms from running on our devices as of now, and who knows for how long?
mgftp said:
Being someone who is trying to learn about rooting etc. I have found this thread very useful. To me if I choose to root a phone the biggest benefits I see would be getting rid of bloat and the UI. I love "plain" Android and Nexus devices, I like things simple, uncluttered, as I believe the way Google intends for it to be.
So if I understand this correctly at this point with a rooted Note3 I can not enjoy the benefits of running a stock JB or KK rom as it was straight from Google? Something about a locked bootloader is preventing these type of roms from running on our devices as of now, and who knows for how long?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and I both - I find a huge attraction with the Nexus devices. Problem is, I'm on a carrier that refuses to carry them because they can't load adware on the phone and make a huge profit on what is already a huge profit (Verizon Wireless). I spent most of my youth on T-Mobile so when I got the Droid 1 on Verizon, I was pretty happy - better reception, etc... but the whole concept of adware really ticked me off. Without adware we could get a lot better battery life. These apps were running in the background of a phone I bought and paid money for (or promised $ for 2 years). What gives them the right to load it with adware?
The HTC Thunderbolt on Verizon - I was the first few to get it... The Blockbuster app glitched and was stuck downloading gigs of movie thumbnails. This killed the phone in 5-6 hours - no matter how many times you killed the app, it would start up and go downloading again till your battery ran out. Not only was Verizon forcing adware but the adware apps were so poorly programmed it drove me to Apple. Good job Google/Verizon! So after a few years of Apple (adware less phones) and relative bliss.... I went back to Android with the Moto X and now the Note 3. Sure, freezing Adware is nice... but rooting still provided much better battery life.
I'm one of those people who doesn't understand the idea of paying Direct TV/Cable TV $120+/mo for them to make $$$$ off of you via advertisements. If I pay retail for my phone (Verizon Edge plan) - I expect it to be mine.
I'm a sucker for ASOP.... but after owning the Note 3 for awhile (rooted) - I highly recommend you try it out. I'm getting insane battery life, the OS is light and fast, I run a custom launcher (Nova), and there is absolutely no adware/app that runs on my phone that I don't want. My only fear is... after the Note 3 (since the S5 is impossible to root and most likely the Note 4) - what will we have? Google Play Editions??? This mystical expensive Silver editions???
I'll try to keep my Note 3 as long as I can but if Google is getting rid of the Nexus lineup .... either I'll have to go back to T-Mobile - they do pay the ETF. Quite a few of the Verizon Note 3 devs left for T-Mobile.
Back to your post ---- there are quite a few lightweight roms to flashs on the Note 3 even a 600mb one!
droidstyle said:
True but that does not work when the other lines on your account already have used their upgrade and are out 2yrs before they can upgrade. So from July 2012- July 2014, I have to buy my device outright to keep unlimited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can transfer your upgrade to one of those lines. That's what I did - the capped line I used isn't due for an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but mine was up back in December. So I "gave" that upgrade to the capped line, bought a Note 3, and then swapped sims.
shaw0050 said:
You can transfer your upgrade to one of those lines. That's what I did - the capped line I used isn't due for an upgrade for another couple of weeks, but mine was up back in December. So I "gave" that upgrade to the capped line, bought a Note 3, and then swapped sims.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure how you accomplished that but I tried and was told I would lose unlimited if I transfered my upgrade to another line. Aside from that I will probably continue to purchase developer devices being Samsung retail devices can no longer be rooted.
droidstyle said:
Not sure how you accomplished that but I tried and was told I would lose unlimited if I transfered my upgrade to another line. Aside from that I will probably continue to purchase developer devices being Samsung retail devices can no longer be rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are interested in a retail device and using your upgrade you can purchase from an online retailer such as best buy and select keep old plan and ship to home. As long as you insert your current sim card before powering it on and discard the new one they send you you will keep your UDP and have your contract extended two years when you power up the new device. The trigger to knock you off UDP is tied to the new sim, nothing else. There are many threads around various forums regarding this but look at android central and slickdeals if you wanna know more.
Slickdeals thread: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6964624
i kept unlimited by upgrading a basic phone (with no data plan) on my plan to the note 3, then switching it to my line.
edit: but i dont know how you get 20GB with reqular use. i get about 4-5gb with regular use, and my highest was 18gb in a month by USB tethering to my computer and torrenting a bunch of "linux software distros".
Related
Just days after my team Unlocked the IROM, Samsung is selling a "Developer Edition". This developer edition will be more secure than the exploit unlock my team provides.
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I605MSAVZW
I find this really funny. I will also call those who pay for this device a sucker.
heck yea
Why would anyone in their right mind fork that kind of money over, when Adam Outler has opened this bad device up for you, you are right, they are a sucker if they fall for this.
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
imnuts said:
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
AdamOutler said:
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can collect unlocked data, but they can't say "these people wanted an unlocked device only". By purchasing the phone directly from them, they have hard numbers to provide. Also, how is the possibility of an OTA limiting future radios, etc. based on bootloader version not valid? Are they likely to do it? No, but it is still a possibility. And why would not buying it from Verizon be an invalid reason? You seem to hate them for locking it, so why would you buy it directly from them to help support them further in locking the device? I'd rather have whatever profits there are go only to Samsung.
imnuts said:
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
The way I see it, Samsung wants the phone unlocked from the start. They know that they can appeal to a greater Android crowd by letting it be easily unlocked, as it is on virtually all other flavors of the phone. When it comes to Verizon however, they have no say in the matter initially. It must be locked. This is the same for pretty much all other phone OEM's on Verizon as well. Hell, my old Droid X STILL doesn't have an unlocked bootloader.
By selling a "developer edition" that works on Verizon, it's kinda like they're sticking the finger back at Verizon while simultaneously making direct profit. Since they are the ones who made this beautiful device, I have no problem with this. They definitely deserve it. And they could opt to just not sell us these unlocked devices anyway, leaving us in the dust to deal with waiting on OTA's and never being able to truly update our device with custom firmware.
Either way if it weren't for you Adam and your team, this would be our only option. It's amazing to me that you guys were able to break Verizon's grasp on our devices and really stick it to them. As someone who has endured the annoying locked bootloader for a long time with my Droid X, it makes me grin ear to ear seeing their attempts to control our devices be foiled in just a couple of weeks after release.
Muchos gracias friend. And a big OORAH to you.
Old MuckenMire said:
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
ihavenewnike said:
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the problem is not samsung its verizon...samsung does not encrypt bootloaders. verizon requests the device to be locked and samsung must comply in order to manufacture devices for that network.
imnuts said:
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running deodexed stock, is there anything I or a developer can do that would block any OTA, and block the notification and nagging that would happen?
Thanks again man!
delete
droidstyle said:
delete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
phind123 said:
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah... the download counters speak for themselves.
1500 so far.
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
crazydad said:
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The required source release will be the same for both.
Old MuckenMire said:
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you see sdm 1.0 in your apps then yes freeze it! I believe on beans rom its already removed. I could not remember if it had it stock, that's why I deleted my post...however I do know it was there on the GS3 stock.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Killer Turtle said:
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't say that anywhere in the specs...
So, I've been with Verizon ever since my first cell phone, but the last phone I got (Sony Xperia Play) was not very well supported by the community for CDMA/Verizon. It was a pain to unlock and it was a janky method, but even once I got past that all of roms and more specifically the Cyanogen based roms didn't function as well as their GSM counterparts, because of Verizon's constant struggle to prevent people from unlocking and modifying their devices. The community wasn't very interested in supporting it. So my questions are: My contract is going to be running out soon and I've decided this is the device I want to get, but I don't want to go through the hassles I've gone through with Verizon again. Is this device well supported for CDMA/Verizon? Is the community supporting the Verizon version as well as it's GSM/other carrier counterparts? Can it still be unlocked? Will these devices still be unlockable for the foreseeable future? Is this version going to be abandoned? Are things like MMS and the camera functioning properly? What is the difference in compatibility between all the carriers hardware/software? Anything else I should know? Thanks in advance.
Have you even looked at the dev sections? Your questions would be answered.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
i did look around a little bit... I didn't realize it would be a big deal.
xrishox said:
So, I've been with Verizon ever since my first cell phone, but the last phone I got (Sony Xperia Play) was not very well supported by the community for CDMA/Verizon. It was a pain to unlock and it was a janky method, but even once I got past that all of roms and more specifically the Cyanogen based roms didn't function as well as their GSM counterparts, because of Verizon's constant struggle to prevent people from unlocking and modifying their devices. The community wasn't very interested in supporting it. So my questions are: My contract is going to be running out soon and I've decided this is the device I want to get, but I don't want to go through the hassles I've gone through with Verizon again. Is this device well supported for CDMA/Verizon? Is the community supporting the Verizon version as well as it's GSM/other carrier counterparts? Can it still be unlocked? Will these devices still be unlockable for the foreseeable future? Is this version going to be abandoned? Are things like MMS and the camera functioning properly? What is the difference in compatibility between all the carriers hardware/software? Anything else I should know? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xrishox said:
i did look around a little bit... I didn't realize it would be a big deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xrishox, I am the Taxmaster. As you may know, in my current form (the Omega Taxmaster), only quints can kill me and since you rolled a 05/06, I am alive and still able to help you.
Now, you must come to recognize one thing - this forum is amazing, but it is sometimes quite unforgiving when n00bs troll around and drop a massive question like you did (you're asking like 10 things dude) and all of your answers are within 10 minutes of searching this forum.
With that said, I too was once a n00b and I had my growing pains, so I will cut you a break and provide you the counsel that you need. Answers COMING RIGHT UP:
1. You're contract is about up. Okay let's discuss 2 scenarios shall we?
1.1 You have an unlimited data package that you're grandfathering in to your next device (if you stay with Verizon). If this is the case, then be aware that you'll have to drop 8 bills to buy an SCH-I605 (Verizon GNII). I must emphasize, you need tons of data because this thing burns it like it's going out of style. I'm an extreme data hog, as I use 80GB / month ...
1.2 You don't have an unlimited data package. Well, unless you want to have a severely castrated phone, you do the right thing and jump ship from Verizon, as they don't offer unlimited data packages any more unless you're grandfathered in from an existing UNL data package. In this case, check T-Mo's coverage in your area. If it's good, buy you an SGH-T889 (T-Mo GNII) and get the $30/mo UNL Data, SMS + 100 Min package, get you a Google Voice no., and then you'll have UNL Data/SMS/Minutes for $30 a month. Thank me later and btw I did this for my brother who is rocking it like a madman.
2. Next question, yes, the SCH-I605 supports CDMA and GSM.
3. Is the community supporting the SCH-I605? Considering that it has its own section and 5 subsection with a million questions, yes. The community supports all other MAJOR carriers similarly.
4 & 5 & 6. Can it be unlocked? You bet. If Verizon drops a new version on their phones in the near future, our lord Adam will provide us another fantastic solution, so do not fear. I'm not speaking for Adam, but the guy is kind of our Zeus/Liam Neeson around here.
Links:
Root: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2024207
Unlock: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2043636
7. MMS and Camera function great. There are even mods (for special ROMs) to get AOSP (Android Open Source Project) MMS and the 4.2 Camera with the Sphere photo capturing mode.
8. In terms of compatibility, not all GNII's can be taken from one carrier to another (some do not support other carrier's radios). You need to individually research this on each carrier's website or call them for assistance. In terms of graphical and overall processing power, all are the same.
9. Anything else you should know: Well this phone is AMAZING. Every time I whip it out, people go crazy for it (that's what she said). Get one and never regret it!!!!
Props are due for me spending 20 minutes on this lol .... :good::good::good:
- Taxmaster
thank you for all the information. I'm actually not on that verizon plan, and I'm thinking about making the move to t-mobile after reading your post. does the SGH-T889 (T-Mo GNII) come from them directly? and can they all be unlocked?
xrishox said:
thank you for all the information. I'm actually not on that verizon plan, and I'm thinking about making the move to t-mobile after reading your post. does the SGH-T889 (T-Mo GNII) come from them directly? and can they all be unlocked?
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Click to collapse
Yes, when you go to T-Mo the GNII that they will sell you is the SGH-T889. It's a very nice phone and T-Mobile has a nice stock ROM. Enjoy the 50GB Dropbox!!! My brother is running Jedi X9 ROM w/Perseus 33.4 Kernel at 1800 CPU and 640 GPU posting ANTUTU of ~18,000.
I believe T-Mo has a very liberal unlocking policy, but it may be tougher to go from T-Mo to another carrier with the SGH-T889, as it doesn't operate on the same bands as other models of the GNII.
By the way, I updated my sig finally to include the donate link people have been asking about. Anything helps put diapers on the baby!!!! LOL :victory:
Verizon is the best i had all cell companies and Verizon number 1
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
If you search the you'll find that there is a reliable method for rooting and unlocking the bootloader stock vrall4 version for flashing custom roms. In addition in the Dev section you'll find the custom room threads and see that most people like various roms on Verizon.
Riding a Note 2 blast
NVM
universexda said:
If you search the you'll find that there is a reliable method for rooting and unlocking the bootloader stock vrall4 version for flashing custom roms. In addition in the Dev section you'll find the custom room threads and see that most people like various roms on Verizon.
Riding a Note 2 blast
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you missed it, I already provided him those links above.:thumbup:
Sent via Tapatalk 2 using my:
Verizon Galaxy Note 2 (SCH-I605)
Unlocked, Overclocked, and Undervolted
CleanROM 4.5 w/Perseus 33.4 Kernel
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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Click to collapse
The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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Click to collapse
this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
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I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
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Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
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Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
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Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
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You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
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No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.
So ive been putting it off for a while, but its time to retire the device im using. Trouble is, I'm used to being rooted. And theres so much out there, I figured I'd ask here first instead of getting swamped trying to dig through the options.
So, my budget is around $250-300, flexible depending on the device and what not. Prepaid cuz **** contracts and all that. And so you know what I'm coming from, Im currently on a Galaxy J3 with Virgin. So whatever it is should be a noticeable, preferably significant upgrade from that.
Things ive never had in a phone but would definitely pay a little more for:
Fingerprint sensor
NFC capabilities (android pay, etc)
Anything that has been standard on fancier, more expensive phones but not on devices under ~$150 (my max I'd spend in the past).
Carrier doesnt matter too much, as long as its prepaid/no contract.
Help me people, I await your advice.
Also, apologies if this isnt where this should be posted.
darknaio said:
So ive been putting it off for a while, but its time to retire the device im using. Trouble is, I'm used to being rooted. And theres so much out there, I figured I'd ask here first instead of getting swamped trying to dig through the options.
So, my budget is around $250-300, flexible depending on the device and what not. Prepaid cuz **** contracts and all that. And so you know what I'm coming from, Im currently on a Galaxy J3 with Virgin. So whatever it is should be a noticeable, preferably significant upgrade from that.
Things ive never had in a phone but would definitely pay a little more for:
Fingerprint sensor
NFC capabilities (android pay, etc)
Anything that has been standard on fancier, more expensive phones but not on devices under ~$150 (my max I'd spend in the past).
Carrier doesnt matter too much, as long as its prepaid/no contract.
Help me people, I await your advice.
Also, apologies if this isnt where this should be posted.
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Click to collapse
Try Micromax Canvas Infinity
Ill go the whole ordering a phone overseas as a last resort. Id prefer it to not be too "off brand" if possible. If not then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.